Joe Louis as the P4P greatest

i'm not sure that louis has the names on his resume to be up there with the likes of robinson. all of your points are true, though. louis was arguably the most dominant champion in history. he epitomised what it is to be a 'champion'.

 

Best heavyweight, not best boxer.

As you say, even if he'd fought everybody he was "supposed" to it wouldn't make much difference. Robinson probably benefits from who he had contending in his era, but the fact is they were there and he did more than enough against them to earn the top spot.

 

Joe Louis and Ray Robinson were the greatest fighters of my time. Louis I recall was held
in awe, more so than Ray Robinson was when they were at their peaks.
Partly because he was so dominate a champion for ELEVEN years, and was declared
as being unbeatable during that time. Of course he could beat any fighter in the world,while Ray Robinson was "whispered " as avoiding certain fighters of "murderers row"
thus mitigating his reputation as the greatest living fighter. Louis had that distinction...
Of course Ray did MORE things better than Joe, but Louis decapitated most of his opponents
during his heyday...

 

Robinson packed in considerably more fights against considerably better opposition in his first 12 years than Louis did in his entire career. That's why.

 

Because I am in a small minority ,one that does not have Louis in the top 2 at heavyweight, I cannot justify placing him above SRR who is my no 1 at welter, and no 2 at middle.

 

Where do you place Louis at HW?

 

Louis is like Canto for me in the sense that while great in both respects, i have him a few notches higher if focusing on accomplishments in his own time, as opposed to how i feel he would fare against other greats of his division.

I don't think he was the overall versatile technical boxer-puncher that Robinson was, nor as inherently flat out effective or durable a fighter.He did however have a style and talents that were perfectly suited to the typical heavyweight size and mobility level.Not that he wouldn't have been a great fighter at any weight, but even putting perceived stylistic limitations re weightclasses aside i don't see greatest of all time ability when i watch him fight even in his own weightclass.

Not that i am any good at specifically ordered lists anyway, though.

 

About 24th.

 

As the 2nd best heavyweight ever, and a head to head monster, he ranks just about as high pound for pound as any heavyweight. But #1? Far from it.

 

I have him #1 at HW and #1 or #2 P4P depending on the day.

 

He didn't have the skillset to be anywhere near that type of ranking. Great heavyweight but p4p no way. I also don't see how anyone could rate him above Ali either, but thats another story.

 

I reckon Sugar Ray Robinson would have ranked Louis as the best ever.

Louis gets under-rated p4p these days.
Maybe all heavyweights do.
His opposition gets savagely undermined. He beat lots of very good fighters, and rarely relied on the judges.
Louis was a pure fighting machine, the consummate professional and textbook boxer-puncher.

 

In Germany the heavyweight champion is also called "champion of all classes". Going by this there is an argument. On the other hand it would freeze out all smaller fighters for that spot just due to their size.

 

Best heavyweight ever. No lower than second.

Has to be in everyone's top 10 "p4p" all time list, should be everyone's top 5.

Not better than Robinson. To answer your question, there is an easy way he could have gone down as greater. Had he defeated Charles to regain the crown upon his comeback, had the exact stretch of victories he did until the Marciano fight, beat Marciano, and promptly retired. He would be a legendary something like 67-1 and would be a shining example of an aged fighter continuing his elite stature. That would add two top 12 all time heavies to his notch.

I personally rank Robinson, Pep, and Moore ahead of my #4 Louis. Followed by Saddler, Armstrong, Ali, Greb, Duran, Monzon, Leonard. Any of those guys could be ranked ahead of Louis and I'd be cool with it if they could explain themselves but anybody more than that would be a COMPLETE stretch, in my opinion.