joe louis deceptive record?

Rusty Nails.. Im glad your willing to offer you opinion.. This is just a forum after all mate.. Thanks again.. Regardless of the Louis/Braddock fight..if Jim had a bad eye.. thats boxing...Regardless of which, Joe defeated both Baer and Carnera on his way up.... neither men had been uncrowned for a long period....No One rates the record of Louis based purely on the defaets of Baer or Carnera... or Braddock...

Pre-37, the H/W scene was rather unconvinceing.. Albeit, through the constant changing of hands regarding the title.....We can thank Tunneys premature retirement for the most part.

In comparison to Holmes... please mate.. Louis hold a larger piece of Boxing history, even in Australia, through his career achievements, efforts, selflessness, behavior, pride of being American, indestructability and humbleness.. If Joe Louis was not the humble giant he resembled, I doubt the American politicians would have afforded the public an opportunity to witness another coloured fighter, the chance to contend the H/W Championship for a very long time.

Joe Louis was the dream..... Martin Luther had a dream..

 

More than the vast majority of boxers, or human beings for that matter.

That's how it almost always happens. How many champions have won the championship from an ATG fighter in their prime?

Ok, now you're crossing the line. Schmeling was not a nazi, and even if he was that has **** all to do with his abilities as a fighter. Also, a fighter rarely gets the chance to fight another fighter in who is also a top-10 ATG in their weight division. It just doesn't happen, because there are only 10 of them in the history of boxing, so, you see, the odds are against them. Dempsey didn't, Marciano didn't, Liston didn't, Holmes beat up Ali's corpse, Lewis didn't unless you have Tyson or Holy in your top-10, which I don't. Schmeling is in any reasonable person's top 20, and I have Baer not too far off from there, too.

Nobodies like...Arturo Godoy, Tony Galento, Lou Nova, Abe Simon, Joe Walcott, Billy Conn and Buddy Baer? He defended against most of the best contenders of a solid era for the division, some of whom were all time greats in their own right, and wracked up more defenses than anyone.

He lost to an ATG when he wasn't at the top of his game. No shame in it. Also, Galento could punch like a mule, say what you wish about him, but that much is true. Conn did rattle him, but so what? His chin was solid enough to get by one of the heaviest punchers in the divisions history in Max Baer, as well as Baer's brother and Abe Simon and Galento and Walcott. Besides, no one argues that he had the best chin in the division, but I rate it about on par with Marciano, Frazier and Dempsey.

Well you reckon wrong!

 

Lets look at the raw numbers.

Louis defeated eight lineal champions in an era where there were eight divisions and one title per division.

He defeated 32 fighters curently ranked in the top 10 by ring magazine.

He defeated 15 fighters curently ranked in the top 2 by ring magazine.

He defended the title 26 times and held it for 12 years.

No other heavyweight in history apart from Ali comes close to matching those statistics.

No other heavyweight in history could even theoreticaly be ranked ahead of Louis unless you believed that he fought in a much stronger era, and it would take a lot more than two or three exceptional heavyweights to acount for the diference.

 

Maxmomer... your words are well worthy and beneficial to the arguement.. Cheers..
A little asked Question is.. What would the 37-49 era have been without the stronghold of Louis??
JOE LOUIS, on his own, did more to retain credibility to his race, boxing and acceptability, than any other sportsman or charactor of the first half of the century. If Louis had been dethrowned in the 37-40 period, god knows what direction the H/W championship may have taken. Louis` reign was the most stabilising era in SPORTS, in relation to colour, in American History.. (I hope 2000 rednecks argue the point).

Had louis been dethrowned early in his reign... I doubt a worthwhile contender would have taken the reigns for an extended period....No one worthy of adulation anyway.....

Schmeling was not a nazi... please let his name escape from such profanities.....

 

First of all it is a legitimate question and one I have heard before ...

I like Max's answer best ... however, Louis proved his abilities through consistent outstanding performances as well as longevity ...

I do not say Louis was not flawed ... He could be puzzled as he was agaist Farr and Godoy ... he did not like being smothered as also shown by the short term success Galento had ... he could be slow of foot as we saw in Conn 1 ...

However, Louis was the sharpest, fastest punching two handed fighter in heavyweight history ... exceptional power in either hand ... great jab, very strong, always in excellent condition, so fundamentally sound ... simply put an exceptional fighter ...

Some may have beaten him. I like Ali , maybe by decision and Jack Johnson as well ... however ... he remains exceptionally dangerous and could have beaten anyone ...

 

HeGrant... I hope no offence was taken by the words Ive written.. as none was intented to be offensive to anyone... Cheers

 

Disagree strongly with this, but not the first time I've heard the opinion! I was speaking to my Grandad about Joe Louis' record of holding the title for the longest time and his response was 'only because the war got in the way'. Seems a few people do hold this opinion.

However, Louis' legend is secured and rightly so!

 

Louis is a legend, and no doubt your Grand Dad Is too Paddy. Its a damn shame we cant speak with them men of the era.. I hope ya memories of Gramps are help for a long time..Cheers.

 

This basically sums everything up. Though, I do have Ali rated slightly ahead of Joe, a strong argument could be made for Louis being the one greatest fighter of all time. Another point that should be made, is that those 8 lineal champions were either prime or very close to it. I can't think of any other heavyweight champ who fought that many champions so close to their best.

 

I have Ali as P4P. NO.1.... that will never change..