Joe Louis in the 70s

In what exact way would you say Joe's footwork was lacking? If you believe his footwork was lacking due to being 40 years before the 70's you'd surely support that the 70's guy were also lacking vs the guys of the 2010's on as another 40 years has passed.

On top of this you'd have to believe the likes of SRR, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Willie Pep, Hank Armstrong, Charlie Burley and various other boxing gods wouldn't compete well in the 70's.

On top of this the 70's and 80's wouldn't compete with today. Michael Spinks, SRL, Arguello, Gomez, Sanchez, Duran!, Qawi, Hagler, Hearns, Pryor, ali, Monzon, Napoles, Olivares, Zarate etc.

 

You're taking it out of proportion, I'm talking about Joe Louis and most greats from the 70s and up.

I am NOT saying the ENTIRE era of the 40s would never beat more modern eras

Also there is a difference in skills between the 30s and 70s and 70s and 2000s.

In the 30s skills and styles were starting up and there was still a lot of new techniques to be learned and made. For the 70s there was a foundation for skills and styles to grow, in modern times we have grown in styles but its not a drasatic difference as its clear there is a decline in the heavyweight division.

 

I think Louis better do an early job on Frazier like he did against Schmeling in the second fight because this gets past the 3rd round and Joe starts to smoke he'll begin to wear Louis down. I have immense respect for Louis but even if he drops Frazier I don't think he'd keep him down. It would be a fight that'd take a lot out of Frazier like the 1st fight with Ali

 

The guys from the 40's and certainly 50's were well ahead of where we are right now on the whole. Lots of fighting and lots of sparring with any amount of top notch trainers all over the place saw skills probably peaking if anything. Lets concentrate on Joe tho.

You haven't expanded at all on what you see lacking in Joe's footwork?

 

I disagree. I think 40s and 50s would not benefit in anyway in modern times, obviously the greats would do way better but the average 50s fighter vs the average modern fighter favors modern imo.

For Joes footwork, in the 70s I just think it wouldn't hold up. He was very flat footed and his movement for outboxers such as Ali is a bad matchup because of the lack of pivoting and ability to track his opponent up for counters and shots. Assuming we are saying 70s fighters at there peak, I feel a good amount of 70s contenders who used their feet would trouble Joe and make him look no where near as great as he looked in his era, one in particular being Jimmy Young (who usually did make most fighters he fought look horrendous even when winning).


I do think Louis would be top 5 in the era. Dont get me wrong, im not saying he would be a bum, I do think he'd pick up a belt.

 

no cause it's one of my quotes he was outdated and the whole era and he would be destroyed

and wasnt just his footwork his upperbody movement was missing mutiple advances the 70s had

 

Ok we can strongly disagree on that one. I think the immense skill of guys like Archie Moore, SRR and co are obvious on film. The guys fought and sparred far more than the current day and such skills as Moore and co had are learnt best in the ring. The skill on display even in some of the decent contenders can be eye opening at times. To each their own.

The only guy i see giving him problems is possibly Ali but we have to remember Ali in the 70's wasn't near as consistently mobile as the Ali of the 60's. 70's Ali would not be able to rope a dope Joe Louis.

Who would you nominate as the good amount of 70's contenders that used their feet? There really wasn't many. The top guys were Ali, Frazier and Norton. Ali wasn't moving for 15 rounds at this point and Joe would have loads of punching opportunities. Frazier walks right into Joe's fire as long as the fight lasts. Norton gets backed up and only lasts 1 or 2 rounds. Lyle is right in front of Joe with far less skill and hand speed. Foreman's right there.

Who could use their feet for 15 rounds to evade him would you say? Jimmy Ellis could be potentially awkward but Joe's too classy and would track him down at some point.

Young would be awkward, i agree. He wasn't quite so much a mover as a slickster however and Louis' blazing hand speed, endless punch variety, stamina and ability to throw in combination would surely get him out of there be it earlier or later.

I think Louis has superb footwork personally, footwork that is perfectly fine tuned to his strengths and style. His stance was excellent and off the line and he'd shuffle forward with short precise steps and always be on balance and ready to deliver a variety of punches with maximum leverage. Watch him suddenly take a subtle half step back to get his opponent moving to him then skip another half step back away from his offensive before planting and exploding counters off his chin. His footwork was extremely economical and it was surprising how fast he could skip backwards and reset when so inclined. He loved however staying in range where he could play to his strengths. There was no extravagant footwork avoiding punches as that would lessen countering opportunities. Watch how economical he is slipping jabs to the outside while simultaneously getting his weight into his rear foot to explode into a right hand counter over the jab. It's boxing at it's finest. He would also use the same move minus so much weight loading into the rear foot and counter with his own jab. He gets the opponent looking for the jab counter then BOOM the right hand is there. Beautiful to watch. Just some of his tricks. I've also seen him drop people with left hand counters while skipping backwards.

He has so much more skill than the heavyweights today IMO and isn't outdated at all. Quite the opposite.

Yeah he's certainly no bum.

 

Ali, Foreman and Frazier would beat Louis. The best 70s version of Ali ('73 - '74) still had very good movement and speed, even tho it was not on the same level as it was in the 60s. Ali would win by UD against Louis. Louis could win, if he catches Ali with something big, but as we all know Ali's chin and mental toughness cant be questioned, and I just cant see Muhammad getting KO"ed.
I think Foreman would blast Louis out early. Louis doesnt have the footwork or the Head-Movement to get away from Foreman's punches. On top of that Foreman has an iron chin. Foreman by brutal KO. Frazier would also win by UD or Late round KO. This is the match-up that is the most winnable for Louis, but even in this one, I cant see him knocking out a FOTC Frazier. On that night Frazier comes out to take his head off and I think Louis wont be able to handle the pressure from Smoking Joe. Louis would beat the rest of the HW Contenders imo.

 

For the old times vs modern discussion, I said I think the greats who stick out would do fantastic but the average fighter from then wouldn't do that great against a average modern fighter.

I think the Ali of the Norton 2 fight would cruise a UD, it was the closest we have ever seen a 60s Ali in the 70s, I think he would do great with shaky moments where Ali gets put on the ropes, then clinches and resets.

For 70s, I don't want the impression I'm saying they BEAT him, I'm more of saying we would never see Joe Louis look as great as he did in his era, as he would look no where near as dominant. I think contenders such as Quarry, Ellis, Lyle, Bugner, and an underrated matchup being heavyweight Bob Foster would put on great performances, they may not win, but definitly put on their highlights during the fight.

Louis' footwork was indeed economical and used well but I think with a 76 inch reach, a contender such as Bugner who is 6'4 and a 82 inch would most defiantly cause problems.

 

I wouldn't say he wouldn't be top 20, but he wouldn't be the BEST.

 

in amateurs only yea top 20

 

If Joe Louis had primed in the 70s there’s a real possibility he might have beaten all of them. In all probability however he picks up a loss or two like everyone else did

 

Again we differ. There's was heaps of depth around the 40's and 50's for mine. I won't bang on with names tho as most know who was about.

Post exile Ali would never "cruise" to a unanimous decision for me over peak Louis. There's a reason ring rated Louis the greatest puncher in boxing history. I'm not sure Ali would even win at that stage of the game. Louis would be miles more dangerous than Norton when his chance came. It would be an interesting fight.

Well it is a far tougher era so that's a no brainer. He'd kill Foster, absolutely kill the poor guy. The other 4 would all present different challenges but it would take a brave man to back any of them to say the least. He'd have way too much class for Lyle and Bugner for mine.

He'd be awkward while he was on his feet but i'm sure Louis would get in there and do some serious damage as the rounds mounted up. Bugner wasn't exactly hard to get in on or put on the ropes.

 

You forgot Holmes. With this much talent, he's sure to lose a few and he won't be the dominant heavyweight