Joe Louis in the 90's

What? No. Louis is the most fundamentally flawless heavyweight ever. period.

You can say his technique wasn't suited to beat all styles conclusively, but there is not a "lot wrong with him from a technical standpoint". That's ridiculous.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R78hdxpRfws[/ame]

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/louis_fl.html

 

Best of the bunch in any era

 

1)What giants did Louis decapitate that measured up with Bowe or Lewis skills-wise?

2) Yes, Bowe was hittable but so was The Bomber. He was floored by smallish, feather-fisted, era-specific HWs so imagine what kind of trouble he's in if he went up against Lewis, Bowe, Ruddock, Tua, Morrison, Moorer or Mercer?

 

Alrighty, I'll bite.

Dropped the jab often after he threw it.

Threw one jab at a time, rarely doubled or tripled.

Right hand frequently went to his shoulder when he threw the jab.

Kept low hands in general, actually.

Reached to far out to pick jabs.

I can list more. He's better from a technical standpoint than say, Ali, so I'll retract my statement that there is a lot wrong. There is some stuff wrong, a lot is an overstatement, you are correct.

But technically flawless is laughable.

 

If Joe Louis was born in 64 rather than 14 he would probbly be bigger than he was he'd still be 6′ 2″ with a 76" reach but he would weigh more say for arugruments sake 10 Lbs. and be stronger. being from Detroit Emaunel Steward would very likely be his trainer. He would also have an outstanding amateur career. I can see him beating out Henry Tillman and Mike Tyson for a spot on the 84 U.S. Olympic team and wining a gold medal.
In real life Louis got his shot at the world championship after 32 fights. I don't think he would have to wait that long if he was boxing in the 90's
If 1914 = 1964 than 1944 = 1994.
His career starts in 1984. With his amateur he is fastracked to a championship fight.
It is late 1985 or early 1986 Louis 21 (17) -0 weighs 208 vs Tony Tubbs 244 also 21-0. For the WBA belt. Louis wins on an early round ko. He is 22 (18) -0.
His next fight is mid 1986 (This corasponds to his loss to Max Schmeling).
Louis 208 takes on Tim Witherspoon. 234¾ 24-2. Louos scores another early round stoppage. 23 (19) -0.
After two easy wins Louis is back in action again.
Mid/late 1986. Louis 209¾ takes on James Smith. The bone crusher is 228½ and is 18-5. Smith dose his best to stay away from Louis's power, but Louis catches him late. Louis is now 24(20)-0.
Early 1987 Louis 213¼ vs.Smith in a rematch. After their first fight all the talk is about how Louis won on a lucky punch. In the rematch he puts all doubt to rest wit an early stoppage of Smith. 25 (21)-0.
Mid 1987. Louis 207¼ vs. Mike Tyson A possible rematch of the Olympic trails won by Louis. Tyson is 29 (26) -0. He holds the WBC championship. He weighs 218¾. Despite Tyson having more fights Louis is the more seasoned boxer. The fight lives up to all the hype. Louis goes down early but gets up and wins a decision 115-112 (8-4). 26 (21)-0.
Louis is 23 years old and the most famous athlete in the world.
Mid 1988. Still felling good after beating Tyson. Louis208¾ takes on Michael Spinks 212¼. 31-0. IBF Champion. In his most impresive win to date Luis by first round ko. 27(22)-0.
Early 1989. Louis 210¼ defends his undisputed championship against. Frank Bruno 228. 32-2. Bruno dose his best but is no match for Louis who scores another quick stoppage to advance to 28-0(23).
Mid/late 1989. Louis 210. vs. Carl Williams. 218, 22-2. Louis in one. 29 (24)-0.
Early 1990. Louis 210 vs Mike Tyson II. In the almost 3 years since they meet both boxers have been on a path of distruction in the heavyweight devision. Tyson is 220½ with a 36-1 mark. Tyson is as at his best this night. There is nothing Louis can do. Tyson by early round ko. Louis is now 29 (24)-1.
The loss to Tyson devestates Louis who considers retirement.

 

His greatest bad habit was keeping his left low after a jab. That's why he lost to schmeling. but apart from that he had a very good fundamental stance, he kept his right in good parrying position(totally disagree about the shoulder comment), and kept his hands exactly where they needed to be. He blocked punches on his shoulders and with his hands very well. His punch technique is some of the most concise i've ever seen, certainly in the heavies for sure. His defense wasn't incredible, but he wasn't that kind of fighter. It was great for the boxer punching style he had. not throwing jabs in combination is not a technical flaw, it's the foundation of a conservative, concise style. You should be looking at what he does perfectly/better than anyone else in the heavies instead of focusing only on how he doesn't do a couple of things right once in a while.

 

I've been consistent on this.

Joe any time after Schmeling I (but pre-war) outguns any Mike (even teenybopper).

Breathtaking fight.

 

Part 2.
After Tyson beats Louis. He defends against Evander Holyfield. A fight Tyson wins by late round stoppage.
The rubber match with Tyson is schulded for early 1991. Tyson gets injured in training and the fight is cancled.
In mid 1991 Louis 213¼ faces Donovan Ruddock 238, 26-1-1. Ruddock gives Louis trubble throught out the fight but Louis scores a mid round stoppage. Louis is 30 (25) -1
In the Mean time Tyson has defeeted George Foreman in a close decision. There are talks of either a Tyson/Foreman or the rematch between Tyson and Louis. Tyson winds up in prison for a few years. Neather fight looks like it is going to happen.
Late 1991 Louis Louis 212¼ vs. Ray Mercer. WBO champion 225, 17-0.
Mercer. In a match up of Heavyweight Gold Medal winners. Mercer is a punching bag for 12 rounds. Louis wins 120-108. 31(25)-1.
Early 1992 Louis 217½ vs. Michael Moorer. 217 , 28-0.
After losing to Tyson in 1990 Louis and Emanuel Steward have gone their own ways. Steward is now in Moorer's corner. No one thinks this fight is going to last long no matter who wins and their right. Louis wins in 3 rounds in a fight that makes Hagler/Hearns look like a snozer. Louis is now 32(26)-1.
Louis wants to regain the IBF/WBA/WBC championship that he lost to Tyson so he vacates his WBO championship.
Riddick Bowe Defeets Evander Holyfield than Holyfield beats Bowe. The WBC strips Bowe after beating Holyfield, and awards their championship to Lennox Lewis. Louis is unable to secure a fight with any of them in 1993.
At 32(26) -1 Joe Louis 29 years old hangs them up.

 

Part 3.
It is now 1996. Joe Louis has not fought in 3 years.
Midd 1996. Louis 217 vs. Axel Schulz. 222¾ 21-2-1. For the IBF Championship. Louis who has not fought in 3 years needs to get rid of some rust, but when he dose he stops Schulz in the mid rounds. Louis is 33 (27)-1.
Late 1997 Louis 221½ vs. Evander Holyfield. 214 , 33-4. WBA championship. Holyfield is comming off his two wins over Tyson who has been on a comeback of his own. Louis has not fought in over a year. Holyfield is in top form that night and wins a close majority decision over.. This may be viewed by some as a robbery. Louis. Louis is now 33 (27)-2.
Mid 1998. Louis 223½ vs. Holyfield. 217 , 34-4. This time around Louis is despite weighing 2 Lbs more is in great shape and it shows. Holyfield shows a lot of hart but it doesn't help him any. Louis by mid round stoppage. Louis is the IBF/WBA heavyweight champion and is 34 (28) -2.
Mid/late 2000. Louis 228. vs. Lennox Lewis. 249, 37-1-1. Lewis is on a roll and has not lost since 1994 and is the WBC heavyweight champion. Lewis who has 8 inches in reach on Louis plays it safe for 12 rounds. A younger Louis may have been able to close the gap and get the ko, but not this version. Lewis by clear decision. Louis is now 34(28)-3.
Mid 2001. Louis 213 vs. Lewis 253½. 38-1-1. After his easy win over Louis a year before. Lewis is a heavy favroite to win this rematch. In a huge upset Louis stops Lewis in the mid rounds. Louis is now the WBC/IBF Heavyweight champion and is 35(28)-3.
Late 1991/early 1992. Louis 223¾. vs. Lewis. 246½, 38-2-1. Going into the fight everyone is questioning Lewis's chin and his hart. Lewis puts alll questions to rest with a mid round stopage of Louis.
Louis is 35(28)-4. He is a 4 time (5 time if you count his time as WBO champion.) Heavyweight champion.
He has wins over Mercer, Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis. He also has losses to Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis. He is 2-1 against Lewis and split 2 with Tyson and Holyfield. Tyson and Lewis each stop him.
He did not face Tommy Morison or Riddick Bowe.
With 2 of his 3 losses comming at the end of his career and the other being to a bigger stronger faster guy. I think he would still be a top 5 ATG heavyweight.

 

Yeah, I've always felt his stamina was overrated. He seemed vulnerable to body punches as well, perhaps more so than you would think someone with his physique would be.

 

Lennox, Tyson and Holyfield all beat him

 

Yeah? How do you mean?

 

And what feather fisted heavyweights were these ?

 

Holyfield had a granite chin ... whoever fought harder punchers than Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Mercer, Moorer and Foreman ?

 

Actually he really couldn't punch that hard either .. .. men before the 90's had no power or chins ...