Joe Louis in today's heavyweight picture

So did Tyson, and alot of other Heavyweights, were talking about defending a title.

 

He's a Wlad nuthugger, he feels defending Wlad is his job at ESB.

 

Are we going to judge a prime Wlad on that fight from 10 years ago?

I am not even going to begin to get into the nonsense "Joe Louis would be bigger today" talks because then you are talking about a completely different fighter. We are talking about Joe Louis, not Joe Louis morphed into someone else. Joe Louis doesn't exactly have the same body structure as Peter or Brewster, who are much thicker individuals. Not everyone who is a certain height, have the same bone structure and body make-up. You would be making more sense if you were talking about Joe Louis fighting at Cruiserweight, where he would still be entering the ring at about a 10-15 disadvantage to the guys who cut that that much to make the 200 lb limit.

 

Obviously you didn't see what I was responding to. Also... you guys act like Joe was at a disadvantage fighing bums so often because he didn't have much time to prepare for them... well.. those guys he fought didn't have much time to prepare for him either. Also, yes the fighters these days get more time to prepare for their opponents, however their opponents also get the same amount of time to prepare for them as well. What's the point?

 

See how this works? I enter the debate, and start laying out realistic opinions supported by facts. You guys choose to start posting back and forth about me being a nuthugger. Exactly why I normally don't waste my time talking to you.

Don't start a thread if you expect everyone to agree with you. I'm sorry that I don't live in the fantasy land were the old small fighters would just come crushing through all of the current guys. I happen to live in the real world. The real world were we know that athletes get better as we evolve. They get bigger, faster, stronger, and better trained. Which is why we are constantly having World Records broken year after year. Every other sport in the world has come to realize these facts. You don't see football fans claiming that teams from the 50's would hang with todays guys, ect...

Nice talking to you... keep living in the past. Maybe next time someone presents and argument that is different from yours, you guys will be able to discuss it in realistic terms, rather than just trying character assassination tactics.

 

So it's safe to say that Holyfield would be fighting in lightheavyweight division or in the cruiserweight division throughout his entire career if he fought back in the 40's? Holyfield used modern technology to make himself bigger, HGH, weight lifting, body builder Lee Haney's assistance, not to mention better knowledge of nutrition. If Holyfield can increase his size and beat big, good Heavyweights like Bowe, why cant an even more skilled Louis do it? he has a comparble size to Holyfield.

 

You can't try and prove your point by pointing out what someone else did. Last time that I looked, Louis isn't Holyfield. Not everyone's body responds the same way to gaining weight. Also, what makes Joe Louis more skilled than Holyfield? That is your opinion, not mine. Also, if you take a close look at Holyfield's record at heavyweight, it isn't too amazing. He has accomplished a lot, but hasn't exactly had a clean run through the division. He was beat by just about every top Heavyweight that he faced outside of Tyson. Once again though... this is Holyfield not the mythical bulked up and bigger (but retaining everything exactly the same) Joe Louis that you guys are dreaming about.

 

Then why is Louis' 12 year reign and 25 defenses still a record? And why are heavyweight fighters regularly exhausted after 12 rounds where the old timers went 15 at a much more rigorous pace?

Football doesn't have weight classes.

 

Exactly. He was an amazing heavyweight in his era. Which is where he needs to be judged.

 

Yes, but Holyfield beat alot of top Heavyweights as well, and had a competitve match with maybe the best big men the division ever produced, in Lewis, he also beat Bowe, Tyson, Ruiz, Rahman, Moorer, Foreman, and Mercer, pretty good names on that resume, a few ATG's and a soon to be hall of famer.

As far as you saying Louis cant be any bigger, why cant he? All the technology we have points to yes, HGH, nutrition, weight lifting, all have improved since the 40s, correct? I'm not saying Wlad has no chance against Louis, but only thing Wlad really has over Louis is his power and size IMO, which is not enough to beat a superior boxer in Louis. Wlad has an obvious mental weakness, which a ATG fighter like Louis will easily expose, especially on the inside, where Wlad does nothing but clinch.

 

I never said that Louis couldn't gain weight. However, we have NO IDEA how his body would react or carry that weight. To assume that he would retain everything carrying that much more weight is quite an assumption to make.

Besides that, I think that you are drastically underrated Klitschko's skills and overrating Louis'. Louis' style is AWFUL for a fight against Wlad. Joe Louis has some of the slowest footmovement that I have ever seen. So, being a small, stationary target that doesn't move your head isn't exactly a winning combination against Klitschko. Especially considering that his chin isn't anything like Brewster's, Puritty's or anyone else who was able to stand in there with Wlad under fire. Joe Louis was dropped to the canvas more than Wlad ever has been... and against MUCH smaller men.

Honestly, have you actually seen Joe Louis fight? You guys act like he was just a magnificent boxer with an unlimited skillset. The man was a very slow, plodding fighter, had his face wide open to head and leaning forward most the time, hands down, and was very vulnerable to eating big shots. However he carried a lot of power against fighters that size, was able to use a lot of different punches... and it worked great for his era. Not today. Guys in that era were just right there to be hit for the most part. At least the guys that he was fighting. So, Louis' best asset which was his power, you have already said yourself that Wlad had more. Louis really has nothing over Wlad except that he threw a more wide array of punches. He wouldn't get away with the same things today. Wlad doesn't need to throw every punch in the book. When he is on top of his game, his great jab, great right hand, and great left hook are too much for anyone. He has a very effective uppercut, he just doesn't use it much. Watch some of his older fights, he used to throw it a good bit. Wlad is a master at keeping people exactly at his fighting range, and controls the fight. Joe Louis' feet were too slow to get in without being absolutely brutalized.

 

Widdow- alot of your post made sense, but you called me out on the same thing your doing, you are really underestimating Joes skill set, there's a reason most, if not all historians rank him 1 or 2 all-time, his accuracy was top notch, he was powerful, and good counter puncher. You said Louis was dropped/knocked out more than Wlad, not true, Wlad was TKO'd 3 times by lesser oppenents, Louis was only knocked out twice, once coming against maybe the heaviest hitter the Heavyweight division ever produced, when he was well past his prime. Wlads been down 11 times, not sure how many times Louis was dropped, but I think someone said it was 10, but I will go back and research that.

Wlad used to have a good uppercut, but I havenet seen him use it consistantly in 5 or 6 years, so it's nonexsistant now in other words. If Louis managed to get on the inside, he would have Wlad in a panic attack with one punch, me and you both seen Wlad panic when hit by punches no harder than a stiff jab.