"Joe Louis of '40 vs. Muhammad Ali of '67" in a time machine/fantasy bout. Who wins?

as great as louis is, Ali beats him.

the difference would be ali's will, and heart.

he wouldnt need to stay away for the whole fight like some people are stating in this thread. although its never a good idea to get hit by joe louis, you are talking about a guy that took it from liston, frazier, foreman, shavers etc.

the question i think that is more vital, is would louis have been able to take what ali would bring to the fight?

 

When it comes down to it, Ali is just more proven against other great heavies. I've seen him beat superior fighters, and I've seen him outclass a great, skilled, puncher who could very well beat Louis himself. I think he avoids most of the serious damage and takes what lands just find. Over 15, I don't think Ali getting the stoppage himself can be ruled out either. I think he's just flat out better.

 

for the most part agreed but it's more his versatility than quality per se that wins it for me. he dominated speedy technicians (faded patterson), beat brawlers (frazier), destroyed slugglers (chuvalo/foreman), technical southpaws (mildenberger), lanky jabbers (terrell), movers (ellis) and grovers (sam cooke). he faced, and beat, every conceivable style

 

Except a real, dyed in the wool brilliant counterpuncher in the vein of Schmeling, Louis, Walcott, Sharkey, Loughran, Charles. As far as truly great boxer-types go, Ali didn't really beat that many. He has some GOOD ones like Quarry and Spinks and Ellis and Young...

 

true, that is definitely a style that's missing at the highest level :good the closest ones and best examples you already mentioned (moore was better than those four but so far past his best to render him irrelevant) and while patterson was a quality counterpuncher in his prime, he was neither in his prime nor schmeling's level. still, ali's proven ability to take different styles is far beyond louis' at the top level

 

Ali dominates louis from start to finish. His style is simply all wrong for joe, who had trouble with boxers. Ali was faster and more mobile than anyone he ever faced, and he could also take a punch.

Louis would be too slow of foot to catch ali and would be confused by ali's movement and lightning combos. Ali would use his ability to judge distance and stay out of harms way. If he got hit, he would just shrug it off and keep going.

Ali would build an insurmountable lead and stop louis on an accumulation of punches by the 13th round.

 

If you are picking Louis the question to me is can Louis knock Ali out in the few rounds where he may catch up to him? Not likley.

I think Ali wins easy here. Fighters with good footwork made Louis look bad. Ali hit a lot harder than most of them, and took a much better punch. Ali would find Louis easy to hit.

 

Louis loses a wide decision. Over 12 or 15.

 

Yes, Louis had issues with fighters with fast feet. But it's not so simple.

We also have to remember that inferior infighters and pressure fighters who couldn't carry Louis' jockstrap were able to press Ali to the ropes at nearly every stage in his career. He's not invincible or untouchable even at his 60's best, so it definitely doesn't boil down to Louis being just outsped. Ali never faced any heavy with Louis' trapsetting skill, handspeed, punch variety, and combinations....much in the same way that Louis never fought a guy with Ali's footspeed, reach, and mastery of distance..

 

I understand your point but you also have to remember that when louis fought he was always serious and always put tried to give 100 percent effort. Ali, on the other hand, often fought only as hard as he felt that he needed to. To a great degree (though not always) a prime ali simply allowed some of his opponents to be slightly more effective than they should have been. Louis didn't play; Ali did.

 

What's your evidence for this? Louis did his fair share of ****ing around and partying about late at night; in fact he cites ****ing around and not training as a direct reason for his Schmeling loss. Do you really think Louis was giving it 100% of the time? You physically can't and stay champion that long. He was a notorious slow starter and as much as I love him he would have been saved a lot of misery in a few fights by unleashing his dynamite a little earlier. Like Baer said...

"(I define fear as) standing across the ring from Joe Louis and knowing he wants to go home early."

 

In the early going Ali peppers Louis with punches. Sticking and moveing. He'll land and at times frustrate Louis, but a lot of his punches will be cought on Louis's gloves too. As the fight wears on and Ali in the leade but by no means in contro, the tide will change in the late rounds. If an old Louis could find a way to get to Jersey Joe Walcott. A young Louis can find Ali within 15 rounds. Ali has a great chin but like anyone he can be hurt and knocked down. I think in a fight where Ali wins the first 6 rounds they split the next 7 rounds 4-3 to either man. Louis closes the show in dramaitc fashion in the 14th round.

 

If we are talking about Louis and Ali in their primes.Joe Louis of the Max Baer and Schmeling#2 fight, was a coil -spring unwinding... He was unbelievable about this time. Ali never met [nor anyone else] a trip hammer puncher like Joe Louis...Witness the triple left hooks he lands on Max Baer. Light lightning. Ali faced hard punchers also but never faced a puncher with the two-handed accurate power of Louis. Louis seldom ever missed, and carried his power into the late rounds[if necessary].
Being larger than Billy Conn wouldn't benefit Ali, as Conn was as tall as Ali[almost] and
Billy had great speed also. Ali would be a bigger target than Conn that's all.
If Louis hit the Ali on the jaw as he did the GRANITE jaw Max Baer, Ali goes. Ali couldn't recover from a Joe Louis volley as Joe Louis was the greatest finisher in boxing history.
Result : Louis a ko in the tenth round...No rope-a-dope will be effective against Louis !

 

I agree!! :good Joe either catches up to him and forces a ref stoppage as I think Ali is pretty much KO proof or wins a decision... But I am leaning towards a late tko win for Louis... Whether Decision or TKO I feel Louis wins..