Joe Louis on fighting southpaws

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by dyna, Jun 3, 2013.

  1. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

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    So Louis on his search for another bum in the club sparred with the lhw champ to see how it is to fight southpaws.
    After the session his publicly announced he would never fight a southpaw.

    How much should this hurt Louis legacy?
    It's almost as shameful as Larry Holmes cherry picking Spinks and losing, except Louis found out he could lose in a sparring session so his record is still clean.

    What an outrage it would be if any other recent heavyweight would refuse to fight Chad Dawson for example.

    In the end there is only one hw champion who has fought a lot of southpaws.
    The rest of them found a way to not fight them.

    Why is my link censored?
     
  2. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Louis kind of had the luxury of making that choice, because there was no southpaw who realy stood out as a contender.

    I agree that it is a bit of a question mark however.
     
  3. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

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    He gets a small pass because he wasn't that big compared to a lhw... and in the hw division only 1 top heavyweight has ever fought a lot of southpaws.
    So it barely hurts his relative standings at all.
    But I don't want this thread to be my millionth positive post about that champ.

    But I do like to know if modern fighters fight more southpaws than past fighters.
    Atleast for the hw division I'm pretty sure there are more southpaws than ever before, but how much more southpaws do the lower divisions have?

    If todays fighters fight more southpaws this should be a plus towards their legacy compared to "old time fighters"
     
  4. MMJoe

    MMJoe Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It kinda makes Roy Jones look that much better in comparison. Roy fought lots of lefties.
     
  5. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There weren't a whole bunch of southpaws around, their abundance is a pretty recent phenomenon. If, in the 1930s, half the fighters were southpaws, then Joe Louis would have fought and beat a whole bunch of lefties. As it was, if a southpaw contender had come along, earned a title shot and the money was right, Louis would have fought him, too. And most likely knocked him out.
     
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Louis management wanted no part of the active and offbeat Max Rosenbloom, and according to a Ring Magazine article, wanted no part of Elmer Ray after seeing him perform live.

    Louis in the ring had a hard time comfortably switching tactics. It often took him a re-match to do the things he should have done in the first fight!

    So I could see Louis banning southpaws, which is odd since he had a very good straight right hand, the #1 weapon vs. most southpaws.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree that I would be more than interested to see what would happen if Louis had fought in an era where fighting southpaws was unavoidable.

    Louis said that Bettina was the only man he ever realy avoided, and we are starting to see why.

    Bettina ticked prety much every box ar a prespective Louis opponent, except that he was a southpaw.
     
  8. Anubis

    Anubis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Everybody familiar with that era instantly thought of Melio the Mighty when spotting this thread title. Bettina would have been as suitable as any HW contender for a challenge of Louis during the late war period. Beyond being a southpaw, he was an excellent crowding infighter. Joe had the experience of Godoy II behind him, but would have missed having Blackburn in his corner for lefty Bettina.

    Does Melio somehow upset Louis? No, but I believe Bettina would certainly have done well enough to merit an eleventh career rematch for Joe.

    Seeing Louis abandon his jab to depend on leading with his right cross would have been a fascinating excursion outside his comfort zone, and again, it would have happened without Blackburn there to recondition Joe away from his jab indoctrinated orientation for this unique challenge. Manny Seamon was a fine trainer, but he wasn't Chappie.

    The great ones are said to be lethal in rematches, but Louis really wasn't in JJW II, Agramonte II, Brion II, and arguably Conn II [where Joe himself admitted, "Billy had nothing."] Louis wasn't so terrific in rematches without Blackburn's input. Louis-Walcott looked like a replay of Louis-Walcott I, until JJW [not trusting the judges with some justification] jettisoned his boxing and went for the kill.

    Maybe the most interesting match Joe never had in his prime.
     
  9. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

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    That's just the deal with great fighters, take away their trainer and you take away their greatness.
    Behind (almost) any ATG there's a great mind who does the thinking.

    Almost because I'm not sure for guys like Pacman.
     
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    Louis knocked out Elmer Ray in 1949 Mendoza
     
  11. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well two of those rematches occurred when Louis was well past his prime so I wouldn't say they were indicative of his talent for rematches anymore than his low knockout ratio indicates that he was.a weak puncher in his prime. And he knocked out Walcott which, different fight plan or not, Walcott still was knocked cold.
     
  12. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Most southpaws at that time where converted. I want to know who the southpaws were that were denied a title shot by Louis
     
  13. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

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    ne(remove)ws://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1243&dat=19581104&id=3m5YAAAAIBAJ&sjid=BPgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5420,6133112

    Why is news censored?
     
  14. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It is not an uncommon phenomenon that a fighter takes one dangerous fight to avoid another.

    After Billy Conn beat Bettina it is possible to imagine Louis's team saying:

    "Look at that, Conn has beaten Bettina. All we have to do is make a fight with Conn, and when out boy flattens him in four rounds, it will kill interest in a fight with Bettina".


    Of course where that logic falls down is in that if somebody has beaten the person you are afraid of, they are probably a bigger threat than you had figured.
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Suize Q,

    Louis only had a sparring session with Ray. My point is this. Walcott got the better of Louis in a sparring session, but lost in the ring. There's a huge difference, and Ray for sure was worthy of a title shot.