JOE LOUIS-One of ten Greatest Boxers of All Time

5 greater fighters from each decade, shouldn't be that hard.

 

Ok. Name 5 from 1990-'09, and 5 from 2000-'09 ...

 

Did I say I'm gonna pick exactly 5 from every decade of gloved boxing? I could pick ten from one and zero from another if I felt like it.

 

You said "5 greater fighters from each decade, shouldn't be that hard. " ... That means 5 from each, doesn't it ?

:huh

 

That means you only need to pick an average of 5 fighters from each decade to make a list of 50 fighters greater than Louis. That doesn't even mean you have to limit it to calendar decades, like 1900-1909, 1910-1919, etc, why would one need to do that if he's picking all-time greats, not the decade's best.

 

From around the turn of the century, for a start, Bob Fitzsimmons, George Dixon, Young Griffo, Tommy Ryan, Kid McCoy, Joe Gans, Terry McGovern, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Barbadoes Joe Walcott, even men like George Elbows McFadden or Benny Yanger would be ranked higher than Joe Louis based on who they beat or drew with.

 

I rate Louis as the greatest heavyweight in history. If people can rate Ali pound for pound top ten, Joe must be also. The reason I say this is he was better technically than Ali and hit harder. If you scaled him down he would still have those attributes. Ali would have the speed, but loads of fighters have speed! That's the main reason he reigned, because of his speed and reflexes, and this would be lessened pound for pound.

But as I say, people regularly put Ali high up pound for pound, even people on here who's opinions I respect. What goes for Ali, goes for Joe. As others have said Louis was a great puncher and he was great due to textbook technique. He got great leverage into his punches; he turned people around with them and he beat huge guys to a pulp. In a way, that alone proves his pound for pound credentials.
I would have Louis in my top ten pound for pound without hesitation.

 

I'd love to have a time machine and transport the Baer version of Louis to the present day and watch him either decimate or chase away the HW's out there today. That version of Louis would be outlawed!

 

Benny Yanger's greater than Joe Louis ? atsch

You just have a major problem with heavyweights.

 

Yanger beat Harry Forbes, Young Corbett, George Dixon, Abe Attell, Kid Herman, among others. You want to come up with a list of best opponents Joe Louis beat, and how they compare with above fighters?

 

Heck, going by quality of opposition Jeff Smith makes Bernard Hopkins look like a second-rater.

 

No, there's little point, because you refuse to accept heavyweights as good fighters. You can point to the litte guys who fought each other more, had more total fights, and had more appraisable skill.
You might not acknowledge that their are reasons heavyweights don't compare in those same categories. It's a matter of physics, and the punishing effects of heavyweight fighting.

Joe Louis dominated the heavyweight division for about 12 years (minus a 4-year break, still leaves us with 8 years). Heavyweight was everyone over 175 pounds in those days, meaning he dominated the best men who compete in the 175 - approx. 245 pound range, for at least 8 years.

 

I noted that they "would be ranked higher than Joe Louis based on who they beat or drew with". Not that I would rank them higher, because head-to-head ability, consistency, impressive performances, losses have to be considered also. But winning-resume-wise they are far ahead of Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali, as are many dozens of other old-timers, Harry Greb is several light years ahead of both, which, of course, didn't stop the IBRO, for example, from ranking Louis and Ali at #4, only 2 places behind Greb, like they were only so slightly worse than Harry.

 

I accept them for what they were and what they had done, why would I have to make an exception for heavyweights? Rank them high at heavyweight if you wish, but to rank them extremely high (top 10 is the best of the best out of hundreds of thousands of boxers in history) when their best opponents they beat would be mere footnotes on the records of other really great fighters, sorry, not my way of thinking.

Then it shouldn't be hard to come up with a list of several best opponents he beat and compare them to who McFadden and Yanger beat, and explain why their heavyweight wins are more significant. You have a 17-year-long career to choose from.

 

Yes, but you would rank 50 men as greater than Joe Louis, and you said it wouldn't be too hard to find 50 greater fighters.
Of course, some criteria would favour him less than other criteria. But I assumed you knew your own final critera, and under that you rate 50 higher than Joe Louis.

Again, it depends on criteria.
I'd rate Greb clearly in the top 5, perhaps at #1.
I'd have Louis at #9 or #10.
Ali would be somewhere lower.