Joe Louis past-prime in 1941? Claims "tiredness" for Billy Conn fight

I can confirm that too. And its a very good autobiography imo.

 

Not only "interesting " but scientific... Any heavyweight can gain more weight and be more "powerful" to the naked eye...But what nature gives, it takes away in the fact that the more excess weight you carry, the slower you can hit the bull's eye, and the old adage that "speed kills" , HOLD's TRUE. What made the Louis of the Baer fight so astonishing was the cobra like speed of his trip hammer combinations that were amazing to behold. and look at the "giants" he obliterated who were more powerful than he, as Carnera, Simon and Buddy Baer...This great dexterity and hand speed combinations made Ray Robinson the greatest welterweight ever...Speed, speed and speed...

 

It helps to differentiate between prime and absolute peak - the latter in Joe's case is synonymous with 199 lbs. Though the Godoy rematch was no picnic, once Louis found his range the combinations were blistering. In the opening moments he misses with a salvo but its execution was the very essence of that "coiled spring" phrase.

The last time we saw Louis able to pull the trigger like that was perhaps in the Buddy Baer rematch.

 

He certainly looked like a sculpted and well oiled machine in those fights. Great conditioning, fast reflexes, etc.. A bit on the smaller side, but it didn't seem to trouble him when taking on the big men of the day as you already pointed out. I've always felt that Louis's best day was in 1938 at age 24 when he redeemed himself in one round against Max Schmeling. Now THAT was a peak Louis and a man that I'd favor to beat most greats.

 

If his speed did drop a bit, maybe that's why he didn't fight Lem Franklin like he should have.

 

No. But I think most can agree that he was better than probably half the guys who challenged Louis for the title.

 

Aye to the above. Lem Franklin, Lee Q Murray, Turkey Thompson, Harry Bobo were all better contenders than many of Louis's opponents who never got a shot, NOT because Joe Louis feared them but his management felt that the risk was not worth the reward. If Joe's name was Dempsey ,Louis would be criticized
today for sure...Oh, I forgot Harry Wills, though they DID sign once for a bout...

 

Yeah, no doubt he was stale. Also, it was largely reported that bad hands were hampering him against Tony Musto (I daresay knocking them against Abe Simon's noggin for 13 rounds didn't help!).

ON THE FLIPSIDE, if I remember rightly, Billy Conn had a similar number of fights in the six or seven months leading up to challenging Louis too, and they weren't all easy fights or bums either.

 

On several occasions over the past several years, posters have started threads on the group known as "the murderers row" which involved a lot of the names you mentioned. Elmer Ray was another member of that group. I'd like to see some footage of him, but don't know what's available. Haven't checked youtube in a while.

 

If I remember rightly, Angelo Dundee conceded that Ali was not quite in shape for Chuvalo and could have done with another couple of weeks to get a little fitter and lighter.
Perhaps Ali then over-compensated by training a little too much and reducing down too much for the Cooper fight.
Still, it's hard to say what his optimum weight was in that period, since he was still growing, but yeah, 201 was at least a few pounds too light, just as 199 was for Louis around 1941.

 

Elmer Ray lost half of his fights until WW2 and Turkey Thompson was fighting MW/LHWs until 40. When he moved up in 41 he lost twice to Pastor and drew with Simon and Musto. They're out of the picture. Bobo wasn't in the scene until 39 and lost half of this fights in 40. His best run (which was not a bad one) was 41 how big a window he had? Murray almost the same story except with a more consistent record and less depth. That leaves Franklin that was pro for longer and had more depth. He fought less frequently though which makes his record less appealing. So if Louis had "ducked" them it would've been for less than a year before WW2. You gonna compare them with Wills that went unbeaten in 6 years except one DQ loss during Dempsey's reign and had beaten every opponent he had in common with Dempsey (unlike Louis's "murderers row")?

 

I kind of agree with what burt said which is this.