Joe Louis past-prime in 1941? Claims "tiredness" for Billy Conn fight

True.

 

I have never agreed with the line of criticism that involves picking a champions worst challenger, and suggesting a better one.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with an active champion taking a tune up fight, and if they do so the opponent must be appropriate for that.

 

If Joe can fight someone like Jack Roper, he can fight Lem Franklin.

 

Presumably you don't expect him to take Lem Franklin as a tune up fight?

 

Dundee said that he had Ali cut weight for Cooper to make him faster, and he was very quick in that one. He was heavier for Chuvalo since that fight was decided on short notice and he didn't get to train as much as he usually did. He still looked fine at his career heaviest weight, though. He was always in such good shape during those years.

As for Louis, he was just shy of 28 when he went into military service. He could still have developed for a year or two. If you're dedicated to what you do, don't suffer bad injuries and live well, there's no real reason why you won't continue to get better at least all through your 20's.

Today that's probably true all through your 30's as well. At least until 35.

 

Let's say there is no war. How does Joe's reign look over the next couple of years? When and how does he retire?

 

I don't think Louis can be accused of "ducking" anybody; strikes me as the kind of fighter who would train, look to the opposite corner to see who's there and just fight.

This is a fighter who got annihilated by Schmeling, wins the title & when asked by the press what it feels like to be the champ replies "I won't feel like the champ until I beat that Schmelin'".

Beats JJW on a controversial in a fight that Joe intended to be his last fight (at the time), then delays retirement to give JJW because a) JJW deserved it & b) to put the record straight.

That's more than Ali did after the controversy of Norton 3; more than Lewis did after the Vitali fight.

The above is one reason I have Louis a small notch above Ali in "greatness" terms - he rematched his nemesis after a controversial victory, Muhammad didn't.

If there was any cautious matching in Louis' career this would have been at management level, not Louis'.

I don't think any blame whatsoever can be laid at Joe Louis' door.

 

Nice post

 

I agree with you that Joe showed a lot of dignity in how he rematched difficult opponents. I also agree that Ali should have given Norton one more shot. But I don't think we can completely disregard the fact that they had met three times by then.

Let's not forget that Louis also defended very sp****ly after the war despite there being a lot of contenders out there waiting for a shot at the title that had been frozen for many years.

Ali had really nothing left to prove after regaining the title in Zaire, but still took on Lyle, Bugner, Frazier, Young, Norton and Shavers with fillers in between. That's hell of a reign for an aging champ who's already secure in terms of money and legacy. But with Ali the glass always seems to be half empty for some reason.

 

He might well have had 30+ title defences' but he would have burned out sooner.

In this scenario he might never have fought Walcott.

 

Bokaj, thanks for the response.

My post was not intended as a dig at Ali; just highlighting a difference between JL & MA in a similar situation, i.e. their respective reactions to a controversial victory.

I actually that in most cases the Ali glass is actually half-full more times than not - but that's another debate.

I agree that the names Ali defended against post Zaire were an impressive bunch, I just feel that Norton deserved the rematch after Yankee Stadium as much as JJW did after Louis 1. I feel that the number of times Ali had boxed Norton is immaterial - the 3rd fight left unanswered questions, that Ali did not agree to a rematch and in fact put up hurdles afterward to me, constitutes a duck.

Sorry for the digression away from the topic of the thread.

 

What? Seriously there's only two camps regarding Ali. People who tear him apart and people who rate him in the top two. The former is the overwhelming minority for good reason. I don't know were you're coming from.

 

No, but he should've fought Lem, I think he realized that Lem was a real, BIG risk, therefore, avoided him, and Bobo and the others.