Joe Louis tells how he would beat Ali

Depends who you ask.

 

Well, let's say I disagree with that to put it mildly.

Schmeling knocked out no one of note with his right except for Louis. For Ali it was the main weapon in stopping Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Lyle, Quarry, Ellis, Patterson, Folley, Mildenberger, Cooper etc, etc. Most of those, maybe all, he landed his lead right on.

Meanwhile Schmeling, this supposedly expert sniper, had little luck with his right even against ****ing Max Baer. "Defensively sound" much? Jesus.

It's not even close to being close.

So either Ali had unnatural luck and managed to beat the best of two decades with his right as the main coup de grace or you have really nothing here. Also on film it's clear as day how much faster and sharper Ali's right is.

Just because Schmeling beat Louis once doesn't have to mean that Ali would do it. That much I agree with. Just like Ali's struggles with lesser fighters than Louis don't have to mean that Louis would beat Ali. Fine.

But that Schmeling's right was better than Ali's and that all the evidence to the contrary is just a mirage because all of the fighters Ali beat with his right was magically **** on that very night or **** in general... That just has nothing to do with reality as far as I'm concerned and you will have to keep entertaining that fantasy by yourself. Bye.

 

You still haven't answered my question: what defensively sound fighter did Muhammad Ali repeatedly hit with lead rights.

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Are you seriously going to brag about Folley (washed), Mildenberger, Patterson (washed) and Cooper? And his potentially fixed fights against Liston?

Do you really believe that it was the lead right that beat Joe Frazier?

Even if Joe Louis was the only person he knocked out with his right. That would be more impressive than all the guys you mentioned since Louis was a much better technician and champion than all of them. Do you think he got lucky?

Meanwhile Schmeling, this supposedly expert sniper, had little luck with his right even against ****ing Max Baer. "Defensively sound" much? Jesus.

Baer was extremely awkward and that was the worst night of Schmeling's career. Baer, at that point in his career would have been the best fighter that Ali fought in the 60's.

Schmeling's expertise is pretty clearly shown in his first fight with Louis and in the numerous right handed knockouts recorded on film.

So either Ali had unnatural luck and managed to beat the best of two decades with his right as the main coup de grace

My argument is about the right hand as an isolated weapon. Not about either of their resumes. Ali's main weapon was always his left, in most of his knockouts he hit his opponents with multiple punches, he rarely dropped his opponents with one punch.

Schmeling had more power, more leverage and better accuracy.

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Just because Schmeling beat Louis once doesn't have to mean that Ali would do it. That much I agree with. Just like Ali's struggles with lesser fighters than Louis don't have to mean that Louis would beat Ali. Fine.

If Ali had a far superior right like you said then why wouldn't he? Maybe he could hit Louis with a hundred phantom punches.

Don't retreat into neutrality, of course having trouble with lesser fighters would be an indication of how a better fighter might do. Follow your own logic.

But that Schmeling's right was better than Ali's and that all the evidence to the contrary is just a mirage because all of the fighters Ali beat with his right was magically **** on that very night or **** in general... That just has nothing to do with reality as far as I'm concerned and you will have to keep entertaining that fantasy by yourself. Bye

Strawman.

 

Alright, Futch is biased and wrong but Stewart who talked to a guy who knew a guy who knew Joe Louis' milkman has a better guess on how this fight would go. I only brought Futch up as a response to the Stewart comment.

 

Which movers/boxers was Joe kept away from?

Louis pretty much fought everyone he had to - including movers - which is why and how some people can perceive that Joe had issues with movers/boxers.

Anyway, in varying degrees, everyone has issues with movers - the very issues intended and presented by the said style.

Again, Conn 1 was not at all Louis’ best fight and Conn’s successes didnt only pivot on movement - they were also amchored in Conn fighting agressively as and when he saw fit.

Smaller, boxer types can often give their larger counterparts a fair amount of trouble in varying degrees and to a point. For one thing, for all his movement Ali would still present as a much larger target than Conn.

By the time of the Walcott and Charles fights, Louis was past it and had lost a notable edge from his all his all important prime hand speed and reflexes.

Repeat, Folley landed a good number of clean left jabs to head and body, and right hands as well without necessarily being countered by Ali’s right.

Ali admitted that at some point (round 3 or 4?) he perceived Zora to be becoming tired - therefore Ali elected to step up his own offence.

Even after the first KD, Zora came roaring back at Ali, landing several clean, stiff punches.

While Ali’s movement could be dazzling, I think Folley’s early rounds, no nonsense, fundamental style highlighted a measure of the superfluous, less practical and overly extravagant nature of some Ali’s accented mobility.

 

Odd that he would take the word of Steward over a guy who actually saw Louis fight in person even sparred with him, a man who saw every HW champion from the 20's to the 90's.

 

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Yes, but, if the Ali-Foreman bout in 1974 had never materialised, wouldn’t you make the same prediction?

 

Two things - the point of my original post was explained previously....and that does not = landing a right hand every time Louis jabs. I thought it pretty obvious personally.

 

Rest assured that's glaringly obvious.

 

Yes and i agreed who says what doesn't really matter as the top dogs have been wrong all thru history.

Neither Steward nor Futch are more qualified to be right in the big scheme of things.

 

If Steward said he thought Louis would beat Ali you'd be singing his praises until the cows come home.

 

Don't hide behind semantics, the sentiment is still the same. When else is Ali going to throw his right? The straight right or cross is usually a counter for the left.

 

I would certainly agree with him. I'm not really a great admirer of his so it wouldn't matter all that much to me. I haven't brought in the opinions of any trainers or fighters on this thread.