Joe Louis tells how he would beat Ali

I saw a poster say Louis would stop Ali. There is no iteration of Ali from 1965-1977 Louis would stop , i.e knock out. As evidence for my claim watch Kinshasha Ali, Manila Ali, and Final Madison Square Garden Appearance Ali.

 

Right because you always call it down the middle with no bias...

I didn't even refer to Liston as washed. Here's the comment:

Are you seriously going to brag about Folley (washed), Mildenberger, Patterson (washed) and Cooper? And his potentially fixed fights against Liston?

Where is the mention of Liston being 'washed'. If you want to enjoy a good discussion here then you should probably stop misquoting me.

Most people at the time thought that one or both of the Liston fights were fixed, that is a belief that still persists today in one form or another. It's clear to most people that Liston wasn't the same fighter that had demolished Patterson prior. Emmanuel Steward, whose opinions you and JohnThomas have been schmoozing about, said that he heard that Liston had done very little training for that fight and was a middle-aged man at that point (even though he claimed to be 32). Emmanuel Steward also said that if that version of Ali had fought Liston '59-'60-'61 he might've lost. This is Steward talking so you should take it very seriously.

In the Patterson case, hanging around and fighting at your best are two different things. He clearly wasn't the same fighter after Liston demolished him, he was 30+, riddled with injuries and his speed had clearly started to wane.

The talking points YOU'VE been regurgitating are from the 'I'm an Ali d*ck rider' playbook. I have broken down what I think could happen technically. You haven't done much outside of saying that Ali has a good pull-counter and bringing up quotes by Zora Folley, I guess those must be the 'high demands' of Classic.

 

If Floyd was washed at 30 which was his age when he fought Ali intellectual honesty demands we grade every fight Muhammad Ali had after 1972 when he turned 30 an a curve. "The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you."

 

Yas. 'Unapologetically Black' icons don't get stopped.

 

He was stopped once in sixty six fights when he was thirty eight years old, coming off eighteen months of inactivity, and was baked. I agree Joe Louis could have stopped Caesars Parking Lot Ali.

 

Ah, you just dismissed the Liston fights as fixed with no evidence whatsoever, and actually contrary to the investigation that was made. Instead of actually looking at what's clearly visible on film on how Ali handles him. How clearly non biased of you. My bad.

And to call Patterson washed when he would defeat Ellis four years later according to most is a bad joke. And "washed" was the term you used, not injured during that particular fight (which he was losing badly even before the injury). Even Folley clearly wasn't washed, even though he was getting on in years. Those two aren't the same.

Then there are of course also Cooper, Mildenberger, Terrell, Quarry, Frazier, Ellis, Bugner, Norton, Lyle etc - none of whom apperently is defensively sound according to you. You basically dismiss the largest number of ranked contenders ever beaten at HW as either being fixed, washed or no good and throw a hissy fit when that is called being biased.

Contrary to you I have only used prime Louis performances in my assessment and haven't dismissed a single one of his wins. Others can decide whom of us is biased. I'm done wasting more time on you for now.

 

My actual words = 'Potentially fixed' - Are you hard of reading?

When did I say that Norton and Frazier weren't defensively sound?

You made the claim that the lead right was Ali's biggest weapon even though its clear throughout all the film that Ali mainly worked behind the jab, using it as a set-up for the straight right. It was never policy for him to just spam right hands without setting them up with his left, you can cite isolated examples were he landed lead rights, that doesn't mean it was his MO.

What 'hissy fit' did I throw? You have this habit of making up things that I supposedly did or said.

Question: How can Doug Jones-Ali (that arguably lost) not be prime-Ali? He literally won the title 11 months later. You clearly did not have any qualms about me using Louis fight against Ramage as an example even though he was a year younger, had 3 fights less and was close to 20 fights away from his first title shot. Where was your sense of proportionality then?

You said that you were 'fair' to Louis, but dragged him about getting hit with right hands by Schmeling and Farr even though Ali got tagged with right hands against 36-year-old Zora Folley.

I didn't force you to reply to me.