Joe Louis. The 8 black men who got away.

It doesn't seem to me that there was ever a very compelling case for Louis fighting him.

The highest that I am aware of him being ranked is #5.

In that case the only thing that he brought to the table was that he was a named fighter, and it was entirely at Louis's discretion whether he allowed him to jump the que.

 

I was over the ligh heavyweight limit ten years ago but Vlad ignored me...

 

This is somewhat anecdotal, but let's assume that its true.

You are not ducking somebody as champion, if they haven't earned their title shot.

You are just refusing to move them to the front of the que.

The same logic applies to a number of the black contenders that you have brought up.

 

If I asked Tyson Fury for a title shot he would almost certainly refuse.

That doesn't mean that he is duckling me.

As people have already explained to you, there were no grounds for him picking men like Thompson or Sheppard.

They were viable title challengers, but not men who had earned a title shot.

And herein lies the flaw in your argument.

You accuse Louis of ducking all these black contenders, but one of the two that he undeniably fought, was the man who beat all of them.

Was there any black contender that it would have been more logical to avoid than Walcott?

Was there any point in his career when it would have been more logical to do it, than when the two fights took place?

If Louis was avoiding black contenders, we have to conclude that he was very bad at it.

I don't need to avoid this fact, because it might have no relevance whatsoever.

It might simply be that only two black contenders had earned a title shot over this period.

You could make the argument that only one really forced the issue, that being Walcott.

How much time do you spend worrying about how many white challengers Larry Holmes faced?

I don't feel remotely uncomfortable about the scoring of the Walcott fights, for the very good reason that it is impossible to score them.

 

Here is the National Boxing Association ratings from March 20, 1939. This would be the ratings between Rosenbloom's fights with Nova, Pastor, and Ettore. * is for a man Joe Louis had fought or would fight.

Champion--Joe Louis
1--Tony Galento*
2--Bob Pastor*
3--Lou Nova*
4--Max Baer*
5--Red Burman*
6--Maurice Strickland
7--Nathan Mann*
8--Roscoe Toles*
9--Johnny Paycheck*
10-Tony Musto*
11-Tommy Farr*
12-Patsy Perroni*
13-Buddy Baer*
14-Wllie Reddish
15-Eddie Blunt

Rosenbloom does not appear in these ratings and never appeared in any NBA heavyweight ratings at any point. Of the top 13 contenders, Louis had fought or would fight 12 of them. This is almost unbelievably impressive.

I am certain the reaction to this post will be

Why did Louis duck Strickland?

This thread is beyond absurd.

 

Louis arguably came as close to "cleaning out" his division, as any fighter in history.

 

"Only two black opponents were chosen of 26!"

If you are going to appeal to stats, let's get the stats correct.

There were not 26 chosen. The 25 real defenses he had were against a total of 20 men. 15 of these were white Americans. Two were white Europeans. Two were black Americans. One was a Chilean apparently of some Amerind ancestry.

So, of the Americans, 2 of 17 were black, for a percentage of about 12%. 3 of the 21 defenses against Americans were against black Americans for a percentage of about 14%.

Overall, 5 of the 25 defenses were against non-white contenders, or 20%.

Now how does this actually stack up against Jeffries, Dempsey, Tunney, or Jack Johnson? Pretty well, I would say.

If you add Johnny Davis in 1944, as the goofs over at boxrec do, I think he would be a third black American challenger. I can't be certain because I have never been able to find a picture of the man. What I do know for certain about him is that he was no good with a career record of 5 wins and 20 losses, 19 by KO, with this fight obviously an exhibition, regardless of the smokescreen put out by the promoter and bought hook, line, and sinker by boxrec.

 

"the media of the times suggest Louis avoided Maxie"

You did not quote the media of the time. You quoted a modern source which says "the story is" which is not exactly an impressive historical primary source.

I notice you accept anything which supports your narrative and run with it as fact. What we have here is generations removed hearsay.

 

What a silly post. I never mentioned the general population. What I posted was that of the Americans who challenged Louis, 2 of the 17 were black, or 12%. In fights with American challengers, 3 of 21 were black, or 14%. This is a comparison of black challengers to white challengers in total number and total fights. It has nothing to do with the ethnic mix of the total population.

Jeffries fought 4 black men for a total of 4 fights (5 if one counts the exhibition with Griffin in 1901). Louis fought 8 black men for a total of 10 fights (11 if one counts the exhibition with Johnny Davis). Okay for Jeff, although he drew the color line openly as champion, but I don't see what your point is.

"In Jeffries time there were few black contenders in general"

Compared to Louis' time that is true, but I think it also true of white contenders. There was simply a lot more boxing activity in the 1930's and 1940's than in the 1890's and 1900's. So there were a lot more contenders out there to fight or not fight for Louis than for Jeffries.
Why? One big reason was increasing urbanization. Boxing thrived in big cities. I think very few guys plowing fields or shucking corn became boxers.

Your comments about Johnson, Dempsey, and Tunney are true, but what do they have to do with Louis? Other than showing that Louis brought down the color line and actually defended against his top black contender.