Joe Louis title reign simulation 1942-1945

I get your point about Louis and do agree. I am a bit of a Bivins fan and feel the war robbed him of a chance to be great. His best was during that period and in retrospect his resume is outstanding. The shadow of Louis and Conn stood over his divisions during his best years.
I think the Charles', Moores and Walcotts prove that had Jimmy been a few years later he would be remembered much more highly

 

Yes that is a big win!!

 

I met Jimmy Bivins back in 1999, when we put up a monument of Joe Louis in Pompton Lakes, NJ. I was on the committee with Lou Duva and I was the MC of the event. 1000's of boxing people came from all over. Bivins was very small for a heavyweight, only 5'9", if that, and when I met him he looked a lot shorter then that. We talked for about an hour, and he a pretty nice and interesting guy.

 

Yes he was short but did have long arms. I guess at 80 odd he had probably shrunk a wee bit too.

Youve been treated to have met so many of the guys many of us here have only had the pleasure of watching. Its great to hear your little tidbits

 

I do like Joe Louis......... BUT! I cannot rate him above Ali based on the two's competition........ I just can't do it....... In my book, Ali fought the greatest lot of heavyweights prior to Evander Holyfield bursting onto the scene in 1988.........

I have a lot of Joe Louis film footage.... It is obvious to me that Louis was clearly a cut or two above his typical 1940s competition....... Joe Louis was rarely evenly matched in a title defense..... Again, his greatest title challenger / foe was Joe Walcott in late 1947 and the summer of '48.....

MR.BILL:bbb

 

All I'm saying is, yes, of course we had some good heavies from way back when, but I think since Joe Louis was a very active champion before and after his stint in the Army, that we really can only base Joe's accomplishments on what he actually fought.......

As for another damn good fighter (Jimmy Bivens), I don't think Joe Louis would've had all that much trouble with him had they fought prior to 1948.....

Now, I do get edgy and skeptical when "Supposed" good or great fighters never get a title shot because of faulty management or supposedly the champion was scared and ducking the guy........... I do understand bad management hindering a damn good fighter but, in the case of Joe Louis, he never ducked anyone...... Joe Louis never appeared scared stiff in any title fight of the 1940s.......

I don't even think Louis was scared of Ezzard Charles in 1950, either...... Maybe curious about Charles' skill & speed; never his power......

I DO think Louis was worried about Marciano in 1951....... Louis trained hard because he knew he was slowing down and that Marciano was a new prime fighter hot on the scene......... I think Louis had some doubts there.......

MR.BILL:hat

 

Yes I have been Blessed in that way. I have met Champions from Dempsey all the way up to the Klitschko's.

I remember back in the early 1980's Patterson came to the NJ Boxing Hall of Fame Dinner and he sat next to me at the Dias. We talked almost all night, then the President at the time said the next person to present the award will be Floyd Patterson. At that time the honoree was sitting down below and Floyd asked me what to say, as he never heard of the boxer. I went over what I thought he should say and then walked up with him and stood in the back. I then spoke softly so just he could hear me and he repeated every word I said. After we sat down again, he couldn't thank me enough. Floyd was a real gentlemen.

 

A lot of you people on this thread know the period well so I have a question that allways bugged me, Lee Oma. Yep, thats the question, I think you know what I mean, was he in the tank, were his wins real, or his losses? Or is there something else? Off his best wins he was a really good fighter and on film he could box.

 

I think it was called "nightclubbing" in those days. This is from Ted Carroll in Ring Magazine, Sept 1950:

"Give me a homely fighter every time," muses Manager Eddie Walker. "The girls won't leave them good-looking guys alone. They're only human, and it drives you nuts."

Oma is tall, dark, and handsome.

For natural skill, Oma has been compared favorably with the likes of Tunney and Johnson, and by such a competent veteran authority as Joe Woodman. On his good nights, light-hearted Lee can vanish from punches as if by magic. Had he been of a more serious frame of mind, he would unquestionably have made his mark as one of the really superlative boxers of all time.

Every now and then Oma arouses hopes that he may at last have seen the light and is ready to lay off the ****** business and get down to real business. Right now he is the rage of Buffalo, where enthusiasts see him as a probable winner over any heavyweight active today. Such a build-up is nothing new for Lee. The same sort of talk swept through the boxing world as far back as 1944 when he handed tough Tami Mauriello as nifty a boxing lesson as anybody ever received.

Shortly afterwards, Lee decided it was a lot more fun being a Broadway playboy and that took care of him. Oma's basic skill is so great, he has boxed his way back into heavyweight contention in spite of himself. Although he's been doing it for years now, boxers of his style usually wear well and there is still hope for him.



Comment--this probably gives a good idea on why he was so erratic. It might also be true that he did not have the best chin. There might have been a tank job or two, but I doubt if that explanation is generally necessary.

 

fOGEY, THANKS A LOT, GREAT.