Joe Louis, Underrated or just not that great???

We need to see more scorecards on the competitive matches Louis was in. I do think there is enough smoke here to further the investigation.

If the first Schmeling fight was close, or the first pastor fight was not, then I see evidence of favorable treatment on the card for Louis. Would you agree?

Louis absolutely had key management, and backing. The mob and gambling was a huge problem back then. Its not out of the realm of possibility that his management, who picked many things such as the venue, and the ref " slanted " things his way.

 

:scaredas: The first Pastor fight was a virtual shut-out!

 

In all honesty ,you need to stop this,you are embarrassing yourself.

I don't have any respect for you, what so ever, but you are making a total,and utter c**t of yourself here.

DESIST

 

Mendoza is a Joe Louis closet hater. He detests any great fighter from 1930-1960, and it shows up on his lists.

 

Fixed

 

I have allready painstakingly explained that I was referring to TITLE fights .I thought that was self evident ,but when you failed to grasp it, I pointed it out to you ,know you keep repeating like a demented parrot.
As you become more rabid in your futile attempts to find a hook to hang your ludicrous claims upon, your,allways tenuous grasp of the English language, and punctuation goes completely out of the window.

Keep tracking on what you and learn to count.:huh:huh:huh

Hold your forked tongue behind your cheek. :huh:huh:huh

Face the fact that, everybody finds these ridiculous allegations absurd.atsch

Please, I am embarrassed for you.

 

A virtual shut out? Are you sure. The AP gave Pastror FOUR of ten rounds, and scored one round even in a 10 round fight! Read this article.

JOE LOUIS IN STRANGE SPECTACLE

(Associated Press, January 29, 1937)

MADISON SQUARE GARDEN, New York -- Before a howling, near-capacity crowd of18,000, Joe Louis, minus his fistic bombs, outpointed Bob Pastor, nimble ex-college boxer, tonight in a ten-round pursuit match that presented one of the strangest heavyweight spectacles witnessed in the Garden's battle-pit in many a harvest moon.

Entering the ring on the short end of 10 to 1 odds, Pastor spotted Louis
nearly twenty-five pounds, then put on a reverse brand of footwork with such success that he weathered the limit of ten full rounds without once being seriously damaged, much less knocked off his feet.

Baffled by his opponent's back-pedaling, swift-circling tactics, Louis not
only failed to explode any of the punching dynamite for which he is famous but actually was hard-pressed to gain anything like a decisive margin on points over the artfully dodging former New York University fullback.

On the Associated Press score sheet, Louis was credited with only five of the ten rounds -- the first, fourth, fifth, eighth and ninth.

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Referee Arthur Donovan and the two judges, George Le Cron and Charley Lynch, scored unanimously for Louis.

The crowd, officially put at 18,864 customers, with gross gate receipts of
$111,570.60, booed the verdict lustily and jeered Louis as the obviously
crestfallen Brown Bomber left the ring.

Pastor, who emerged unscathed as the first heavyweight to go the limit with Louis since the latter's knockout last June by Max Schmeling, didn't even lose the plaster patch that he wore over his left eye when the bout started.

Louis, slow, wild and completely baffled by his rival's tactics, showed the
effects of Pastor's punches around the region of the ribs and kidneys, besides a sore nose that bled throughout the last five rounds.

Ringside critics, almost as completely wrong in their speculation over the
outcome as they were in the Louis-Schmeling bout, quickly circulated reports of a "clean up" by Broadway betting men. Plenty of money had been wagered, it was said, against the chances of Pastor going the limit.

Louis, although always seemingly dangerous with either fist, failed to land
anything resembling a knockdown punch. The Bomber's lefts jarred Pastor at intervals, including the fourth, fifth and eighth rounds, but he missed more blows than he connected. Shufflin' Joe looked so slow at times as he tried to match his smaller rival's speedy footwork that he resembled a cigar-store Indian trying to swap punches at long range with a jumping jack.

Pastor blocked many of the punches and ducked or side-stepped others, and scored on his own account with lusty clouts to the head and body.

Taken as the whole the match was more of a novelty in footwork than it was exciting or damaging to either party involved, but Pastor earned credit for outsmarting Louis at nearly every turn and showing sufficient aggressiveness in spots to make the negro look bad. The result, while disappointing to most spectators, looking for some blood and thunder, was nevertheless a blow to the prestige of the Brown Bomber.

Louis, scaling 203 1/4 to Pastor's 179, started slowly and finished the same way.

Pastor, plucky as well as resourceful, actually swapped blows with his bigger, heavier-hitting foe without giving ground int he final round and won the crowd's favor by his brisk finish.

 

You did not say that. You said 10 initially for the count. Then you backtracked to try to cover up a mistake by saying 10 title fights.

The fact is Donovan was the ref in more than 10 Joe Louis title fights. DOLT.

As for my point the ref's in Louis title fights that were competitive gave very bad score cards, that is a fair observation. Of course all these refs were picked and paid by Louis promoters.

 

Liston, and Louis are in my top 6. Marciano is in my 10. So I have three guys from 1930-1960 in my 10. I have nothing against Louis. I think he was a great, but somewhat over rated fighter..

Where we differ is I do not think Joe Walcott or Ezzard Charles were top 15 guys. You do.

 

Actually the ref and officials were approved by the relevant boxing commissions.They were paid by the promoter ,who else should pay them?

Louis had Donovan as the ref in 11 of his title defences, so I was 1 out,you said 15+.

 

I don't care what the AP said, we have footage of that whole fight. The article probably reflects their surprise at Louis not being able to stop this guy more than anything. I can't remember my scorecard, but I'm pretty sure it was lopsided for Louis. If you really want to get into this, I'd like to see how you scored it.

 

To set the record straight, I said Donovan was the ref in 15+ Louis fights, not title defenses. And I was correct.

You said 10 fights initially, then changed your tune to ten title defenses. So you were wrong twice.