Joe Louis, Underrated or just not that great???

yes!! :good:good

especially the Marciano - Louis comparison pertaining to Walcott. Great point

 

Was Louis past it? Or did Walcott merely have the right skill set to exploit Louis flaws?

Louis had something like 100 exhibitions matches in the army! Boxing was his job in the army, and he really did not take a lot of punishment. Its not like Louis was out of the boxing. Quite the opposite.

The larger fighters Louis fought in his era were not very skilled, at least by the comparisons of the larger " super heavyweight " champions of today.

If a guy has a low guard, so-so feet, a stick your face forward stance, isn't tall, and has an average reach and trouble tracking down swift fighters he's going to have trouble with good out fighters with skills in any era, period, end of sentence, end of paragraph close the book.

If Schemling, Farr, and Charles could land easy, then so could Bowe, Lewis, both Klitschko's, and a score of fighters post Marciano who in my opinion hit harder. Even not so skilled guys like Buddy Baer and Tony Galento floored Louis.

Louis could win or lose fantasy matches vs the best ever, but his fundamental flaws remains the same. By the standard of the best champions, Louis' chin does not rate well either.

 

Huh? BS, Schemling was a better boxer than Ram age and Pastor. Oh, by the way most thought Schmeling was past his best for the first Louis fight.

And this flaw remained in pretty much all of his filmed fights. Might the best in history also land similar shots? I think so.

I think Schemling had fine all around skills.

Bear was not skilled or motivated for this fight. In fact he quit.

Louis had trouble with guys below Schmelings skill level before the war. Take Godoy, and Farr for example.

I would pick Louis, but if others could land, Charles could do the same. I think Charles was too brave for his own good though.

Fighters with good defense, fighters who have a punishing long jab that can hit a moving target, or aggressive swarmer types who jump in their man.

 

I disgree I think ,both Pastor and Ramage were considered to be more skilled boxers than Schmeling.

From 1947 when Braddock briefly floored Louis with a punch that hit him on the top of his chest, to 1947 when Walcott floored him,Louis was not dropped by right hands over his jab.
That is 9 years and 24 fights at championship level.
B. Baer and Galento ,both hard hitters dropped him with left hooks.

So, again I disagree ,Louis's style fault of not bringing his left back was corrected by Blackburn after the first Schmeling fight.

For 14 years, and through 34 fights, Louis was not beaten , and before that only once,sure he had close fights with Godoy and Walcott,the Farr fight was not really debatable,imo.

Farr was a tough very experienced box fighter rugged and durable with good boxing skills.It was Louis's fisrt defence, and he damaged his right hand early in the fight.
Godoy puzzled Louis by adopting an exaggerated crouch,so low his gloves actually brushed the floor a couple of times.
Louis found the remedy in the return and devastated Godoy with well timed uppercuts from both hands, turning his face into pulp.
Walcott was a cutie who could make anyone look bad ,and, if you do not think Louis was past prime for his fights with Walcott you must be the only poster on here that doesn't.


Louis was not Superman ,show me any Champ who does not have trouble with a challenger occasionally.
Tha fact remains, for 14 years nobody beat him.

 

Underrated.

I have him at no.2 in my Heavy list, and no.15 on my all time P4P. Greatest puncher of all time, his technique has never been bettered. Not infallible in the chin department, but I'd favour him to win a gun fight with most big punching Heavies.

 

One thing about Louis is that he was so deadly in rematches. People might've pushed him close firt time round, but given a second oppurtunity he was far more severe.

 

The double standards circulating on here are excruciating. Here is a list of fighters that a not-far-from-prime Ali had trouble with (on Mendoza's understanding of the phrase):

Doug Jones
Henry Cooper
Karl Mildenberger
Oscar Bonavena
Juergen Blin

He didn't even look good against Buster ****ing Mathis. I think the following can be said to compare not disfavourably to the above:

Tommy Farr
Arturo Godoy
James Braddock
Billy Conn

 

Hey Itrymariti, I agree with everything you wrote about Ali in the above passage, except Ali did not fight fat buster mathis.

In fact I brought it up many of the points before on Ali. So how is this a double standard?

 

Eh?

Well, everyone has close fights. No need to pick on Louis more than anyone else - if that's what you were doing...

 

Muhammad Ali took a U DEC off Buster Mathis on 17th Nov1971.Mathis was floored 4 times.

 

I wouldn't recommend you watch it though, Mendoza, unless you're having trouble sleeping.

 

Ali was uncharacteristically merciful in that last round.

 

Oh dear lol