Joe Louis, Underrated or just not that great???

is there a copy of the full fight anywhere?

 

And how do you assess Vitali's weaknesses. And Wlad?

 

Wow you're a big guy. I agree with the overall sentiment of your post. I think 180 is a decent mark but I think style comes more into play when dealing with weight advantages and disadvantages. I don't think you can really put a number to it. But I don't feel Louis is overwhelmed simply because he weigh 198 pounds in his prime against Wlad/Vitali. Partly, maybe even mostly it's a style reason that would make me think that weight could cause a fighter to be overwhelmed. Think Tyson vs Tunney to further understand that point.

 

i've seen the highlights as well, which are inconclusive but most of the reports i've read have walcott winning (though not an out and out robbery, he seemed to have the edge). having a full copy would be wonderful but oh well, louis did pretty well in the rematch:thumbsup

 

Louis's era has hiden depths.

People are too quick to judge an era on the top 3 fighters.

If you took a given year in Louis's reign and compared the rankings to a given year in the 70s then you would probably see the following:

The 70s boys would be better from 1-5

Louis's bums would be better from 5-10

The bums would absolutely dominate from 10-20

Seriously, you had guys like Joe Walcott and Willie Redish as sparring partners.

You had guys like Lee Ramage not quite getting their lucky break.

These guys would all have fought for the title and made big money in the 70s.

 

I agree. Guys like Sam Peter and Chambers are leagues ahead of him.

atsch

 

Please read my other posts. I'm not talking about all modern guys just the superheavies with stiff jabs(Holmes, Wlad, Ali...maybe Liston, possibly Lewis)

 

Did you not watch Hopkins vs Jones last night?

You don't need to run all around the ring if you know you can punch. You can stand right in front of your opponent, walk in circles, and use feints.

If you don't have anything in your arsenal to gain your opponents respect, you may have to move more unless you initiate in a clinch.

You can honestly tell me that Louis had limited skill in these videos.

Prime Louis

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5zkE4BkMgg[/ame]

Name one guy in heavyweight boxing that move remotely close to Walcott, besides Ali of course.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uCpJ0bm6RI[/ame]

And against Wlad's clone, and if you don't believe me, play a video of Wlad at the same time and watch their movement. It's identical.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ovh8VkTxYI[/ame]

And you think his guy lacked tallent? Why do you think Mike Tyson himself said that Louis make every heavyweight look like a bum? Cuz Cus told him to say it?

No, it's that Louis was really that good.

 

djanders,I have always believed in the law of diminishing returns...I believe as Nat Fleischer,akways insisted that a man 195-210 pounds were big enough to ko anyone regardless of size...In Joe Louis we have the prime example...At 200 pounds, he once lifted Carnera in a clinch and deposited Primo a foot away...And his vtremendous hand speed and unsurpassed leverage, made him ,along with a prime Dempsey, the two best heavyweights of all time...Excess weight doesn't translate into more explosive power for a heavyweight...For example the prime Joe Louis, of the Max Baer fight, would have beaten the bigger ,more ponderous George Foreman, to the punch, most every time..
A 200 pound heavyweight cannot be as fast a puncher as a middleweight, and it follows that a 200pound heavyweight ,can hit faster than today's bigger, but not better than todays 240 pound dreadnaughts...There is a perfect compromise, and in Joe Louis, boxing found it...Hand Speed and Punching Power...Since Dempsey Joe Louis is number one, heavyweight fighter IMO...

 

It's interesting that you mention Marciano, I actually favour Louis over him prime-for-prime. Rocky had a granite chin but even granite chin's are dentable when you hit as hard as Louis. Archie Moore showed that, and Louis hit every bit as hard. I can see where you're coming from because I think Marciano could potentially overwhelm Louis, smother him and walk him down, but I don't even think he gets time to.

Rocky is and was under-rated defensively, but he was still very, very hittable and Louis obviously had great composite punching skills, included in that sublime accuracy, power, speed and timing. I think he nails Marciano the minute Rocky tries to press and get close.

 

"Louis did not give title shots to Bivins, Ray, or Murray. And Walcott was robbed in their first fight."

I thought we were talking about eras, not title fights and judges.

"Like the 60's, 70's or 90's."

If the fighters from the 60's and from the 70's, and from the 90's were better than the fighters from Joe's era, who are these 36 heavyweights who surpass the 12 I've given from the era Joe Louis fought in?

 

I'm not saying that Joe Louis wasn't great but you're basically saying that The Bomber had a chance against Larry Holmes based on his performance against Carnera? Do you see how slow Carnera is? Joe is a top 5 ATG and he would beat 90% of all HWs in history but Larry Holmes is a total mismatch. Larry would keep Joe at the end of that jab all night and prevent him from EVER getting off. I'd venture to say that Larry was a better inside fighter as well. The only advantage Joe Louis would have over Larry Holmes is punching power. Period. The only problem is that he would never have the chance to display this power because he doesn't have the footwork or style that would allow him to slip that Howitzer of a jab and get inside as required.

 

The problem is that he would never get close enough to Larry Holmes for anything resembling a KO punch to be thrown.

 

I disagree. I think Louis is a better technical fighter than Holmes, and eventually he will slip Holmes jab, and land some devestating right hands, which is something Holmes has shown that he can be vulnerable to.

And you're talking about Louis who is the most accurate heavyweight puncher in history.

Shavers a guy clearly not known for his accuracy was finding plenty of home for his right hand on Holmes dome.

And that's all Shavers had. Just a right hand. Louis has everything.