Joe Louis V Joe Frazier

Yeah, Godoy would be a better comparison. Personally, I give Joe a good shot here. Louis didn't like to be crowded and he wouldn't be able to create space by pushing Frazier around like Foreman did.

 

If you go blindly on what The Ring magazine says in that issue and make that assumption, I say whoa....

Being knocked down not important? Well what if he's in against a guy who can actually finish? Tell Frazier getting knocked down six times isn't important. He got up every time and chose to fight even after the last knockdown. Louis simply didn't fight a guy who was capable of sustaining punishment on him (except for Schmeling I).

 

Nope, i just used the ring magazine because it´s commonly used and to mark the point that i´m not the only one who thinks Schmeling isn´t that much behind Frazier in punching power.

Nope, beeing knocked down isn´t important if you come back to win. Louis had a fantastic abillity of recuperation. And yeah, Louis fought only lighthitting bums without the ability to finish.

 

Schmeling punch ability isn't that far behind Frazier, and it took 12 rounds for him to finish off a green Louis. When Louis was almost shot and 37 years old, he lasted 8 rounds with a Marciano who hits harder than Frazier and is probably better than Frazier.

The closest fighter to Louis that Frazier fought was Foreman, and we all saw what he did to Frazier.

 

I think Frazier hits a fair amount harder then Schmeling, Ali always talked about Frazier power and Joe stopped guys like Chuvalo who had an incredible chin.

 

Louis TKO mid-rounds, all wrong for Frazier punnishing his mistakes with massive counters and moving in with brutal combinations. Fraziers wide punnishes can't compete with the straight compact punching of Louis, the compact shots get their first. Louis having the better speed and being the ultimate finnisher just makes him all wrong for his namesake.

 

Yes but Louis had far more fights against world class opponents than other all time greats. He fought 34 fighters who were curently ranked in the top 10 by ring magazine and 19 who were ranked in the top 2!

Apart from Ali himself no other heavyweight champion fought half as many ranked oponents.

Also bear in mind that fighters who get knocked down the most are often the ones that get up the most. You can climb off the deck three times to win a fight but if you are counted out the first time you go down you only sustain one knockdown.

 

It is hard to compare them because their styles are so diferent.

All I will say in the matter is that Schmeling is a bit of an unusual case because he is a defensive fighter with genuine knockout power.

Like Frazier he tended to inflict horible damage on his oponents because he hit hard but needed rounds to break them down.

 

That´s exactly my point.

 

Louis by Ko...Too much in power and Combo..hurts Joe and finishes him

 

When trying to visualise how a fantasy fight would play out I often imagine that I am each fighters trainer and that I have to prepare them for the fight.

In Louis's corner
I no that my boy has all the tools necesary to get the job done but I have serious concearns about how he will cope with certain elements of Fraziers game such as crouch pressure etc. I take Frazier verry seriously indeed.

Having said that, provided Louis will comit himself to my training plan I think I can deliver a win. He is going to get drilled in fighting crouching presure fighters like he was in the runup to the second Godoy fight. I might even hire Godoy as a sparring partner.

If I cannot put all these elements into place then my confidence is significantly reduced.

In Fraziers corner
I know I have an uphill battle here and that I probably need Louis to make one or more mistakes in his preparation to win. Obviously Frazier will need to be in the best possible condition and will have to be prepared to take a beating.

Fraziers best chance is to train to use a slightly lower crouch than he normaly used. If I can bring that and a few other elements into play then I might be able to confuse Louis and get a head start. I will need a number of sparring partners with diferent properties to prepare him for Louis but Zora Folley might be a fair choise.

Conclusion
Louis probably takes it but if he dose not get the proper preparation then a Frazier win becomes increasingly likley.

 

A prime Frazier would be very tough for Louis to beat. Joe's constant head movement and high workrate would force Louis into fighting at a faster pace than he is accustomed to. Godoy was a very difficult opponent for Joe and Frazier is much busier than Godoy and hits faster and harder as well. Louis has good hand speed and power but is slow afoot. He's not a dancer like Ali which means that he'd better be very quick and accurate early with his combinations or he's in for a world of trouble. I can't help thinking about the Galento fight...Tony decked Louis with a left hook and hurt him pretty bad and Frazier is 5 times faster than Galento and a much more complete fighter to boot. Of course Joe could catch Frazier early and possibly end it as he is a great finisher when his man is hurt but then again so is Frazier. A tough fight to call but I'll be in the minority here and give a slight edge to Frazier. Louis pretty much fough the older style of HW...standup straight, little movement in head or feet and not alot of nonstop pressure. In Frazier he would be meeting an opponent the likes of which he is not used to fighting. If Louis does'nt end it before round 5 then I see Frazier wearing Joe down and finishing him somewhere around the tenth.

 

For a once of match-up I'd go for Louis either by points or late stoppage. But like Ali v Frazier a re-match might not produce the same result.

 

Louis wasn't green; he had holes in his technique. He was already accomplished as a fighter when he fought Schmeling.

I cannot agree that Marciano was "better" or hit harder. They're definitely close.

How is Foreman anything like Louis? I can't think of any besides big power. And what was the closest thing to Frazier that Louis fought....? Please tell me folks, who did Louis fight that applied Frazier-type pressure and power?

I am, by the way, just doing this for argument's sake; as I stated in my first post I can see Louis winning. I just give Frazier a better chance.

 

Louis would fix his technique and knock out Schmeling in the 1st round in the rematch.

You just admitted Frazier was close to Marciano, who Louis was nonetheless able to last 8 rounds with in his last fight and well past his best.

Foreman is like Louis in that they both possess a lot of power. Who was the closest thing to Louis that Frazier fought? Probably Foreman who destroyed him twice. Louis never fought any swarmer as good as Frazier but as he showed against Marciano who is an ATG swarmer, he could deal with them.