Joe Louis v Tony Bellew

I believe I read that study and I believe that it concluded that Usain Bolt would only be about half a second or so faster than Jesse Owens once you adjust for differences in equipment.

 

There's a weaker version of the argument - that even with Owens vs Bolt, the difference is incremental rather than massive.

Bellew was in a better era, the argument would go, but Louis was abnormally good as a heavyweight for his time, so the difference is smaller than it would otherwise be. Thus, styles will decide the matter.

Louis wasn't a good 1930s heavyweight. He was an incredible one.

 

So left hooks are different now? An uppercut thrown in 2018 is different than it was thrown in 1918?
What new punches have been developed and implemented since 1895?

I understand training techniques...use of computers, machines....and better food have improved, but I need to be convinced that "fundamental boxing skills and techniques have improved drastically, massively".

 

I was only 3 seconds off the world 100 yard sprint record in 1965.

 

I just watched some highlights of Bellew vs. Haye. Haye looks to have a bad right leg that affects everything he does so it is difficult to gauge Bellew. But, I don't care where "boxing experts" or "The Ring" rate Bellew, it is not likely that he is one of the 30 best head to head heavyweights in the world. I don't think he could beat guys like Hrgovic (sp?), Joyce, Fa, Dubois, Dychko, or any number of big, young heavyweights with top amateur experience. The guy who won the WSB last year, Makhmudov, and recently turned pro would probably beat him too. And then there are the ones who are still fighting in the top level of the amateurs... And there are probably a lot more that I haven't seen or heard about.

Then there are the ones who are already in the professional top 10 like Miller, Whyte, Parker, etc. I don't keep up with the ratings, but I don't see Bellew doing well against any of the ones mentioned above to say nothing of Povetkin, Ortiz, Wilder, Joshua, etc. There are just so many big, strong, heavyweights with extensive amateur backgrounds. I don't see Bellew going far in that group and I wouldn't see Joe Louis, as he was going far either.

so you believe that punching power is all about arm "muscles?" If you think that, you should spend a month or two in a boxing gym. You might change your mind about some things like the importance of boxing fundamentals, the importance of technique, the importance of body mechanics, the importance of athleticism, and more.

 

No I don't believe punching power is all about arm muscles. I think I have been clear, but I'll make it clearer:
How are " some things like the importance of boxing fundamentals, the importance of technique, the importance of body mechanics, the importance of athleticism" different now from the early 20th Century? Specifically?

How have boxing fundamentals changed? From what I read and see on videos is that yes, fundamentals have changed FOR THE WORSE over the past 25 yrs as boxing trainers who understand boxing have been replaced by gym trainers/purely physical therapists who don't know jack about how to throw a punch.

Body mechanics...OK I can see that as improvement probably because we now have computers that can slow down to a second by second breakdown of the act of boxing and can be studied.

Athleticism? Don't know about that one.

BTW....no one has used the example of baseball as a sport that has been VASTLY improved since the early days through use of video, mind blowing study of statistics, and better health in general.

HOWEVER....the big difference between the sports is that baseball training is now a year round thing...because ball players make way more $$$ they don't need to take on winter jobs. Guys like Micky Mantle would have to sell insurance or used cards in the off season. Meanwhile, the exact OPPOSITE is true for boxing!! Instead of 7-10 (or more!) fights a year, guys now have 1 or 2. You can train/spar/shadowbox all you want but getting in the ring in a real fight (and surely we can all agree on this) is much better experience.

 

Technique in boxing is different from technique in the measurable sports, because the quality of your technique is relative to how your opponent fights.

A sprinter doesn't have to worry that the track will anticipate his path and trip him.

 

The pull counter was unknown until Primo Carnera discovered it in his match with Larry Gaines. Some legends say that Theoklopolous used it in the 300BC ancient Olympics, but there are varying accounts.

 

On a 1965 track with 1965 equipment?

 

Haye and Bellew fought twice.
Cmon Pat M, you gotta know this.
You’re slackin!

 

On a CINDER track with SPIKES. LOL the record at the time was 9.4 seconds. I "ran" it in 12 seconds...
just goes to show how silly track records are. I don't even consider Bolt an athlete...dude just runs in a straight line and that's a big deal? GTGOH. Now if someone were behind him with a knife....I bet he'd run even faster.

 

Joe Louis slaughters Bellew in a one sided fight that lasts 3 rounds at the absolute most

 

I wonder if someone can answer this:

Was there ever a time, where the experts/historians agreed that NOW is the best time in the history of gloved boxing? Where everybody thought, that NOW we have the finest, best trained, bravest boxers... who have taken the sport to a new level not seen before?

Or has it always been a popular opinion to claim that contemporary boxing is ****?

 

Dempsey's book shows an understanding of science most boxers from any era do not attain.