I always found the idea that Louis was slow a rather odd one. He had two of the fastest hands in heavyweigth history.
Even in that respect, it isn't an entirely fair criticism. He mostly chose to use economical footwork, but he was quick on his feet when he wanted to be. He at least had options.
He was static though that's why he had trouble vs boxers like Charles, Walcott, Conn, although to be fair he was faded in two of those fights.
I’m not the biggest Louis fan and think he gets overrated but I think he was faded against all three.
Louis demonstrated good footwork enough times, that we must conclude that he could do it if he wanted to. It just wasn't how he preffered to fight.
Louis told Ali that has Ali been fighting in his time, Ali wouldn't have made his "Bum of the Month Club". Which is what you would expect Joe to say. But prime Ali defeats Joe, I'm afraid.
Hi Buddy. Your correct in our assertion that Ali was more flat footed circa 70/73 but that was a double edged sword, for sure he was slower, but his weight and punching power were both increased, at that time he was a bigger stronger fighter, as I have said on numerous posts over time, he was a hard, hard puncher, I don't ( and will never ) share Mark Dunham's view that Ali " cant bang " tell that to the likes of Patterson, Liston, Folley, Williams, Foster, Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena ( a KO artist like Frazier couldn't stop over 25 rounds ) Lyle, Blue Lewis, the list is endless, add to that Louis was dropped no less than 10 times over his career, and you are of the opinion that Ali who had one of the best chins in HW history would be stopped by Louis, sorry mate cant see it myself, thats me, that said I value your input and opinion as always. stay safe hombre.
Perhaps one of the best fights to uphold and quantify Ali’s post exile deteriorations was the rematch vs Chuvalo which was somewhat closer than their first fight. George wasn’t so much a lesser version of himself while Muhammad most certainly was. I actually give Louis a decent chance even against the prime Ali. While prime Ali had many attributes to phone home about - perhaps the biggest issue for Louis would’ve been Ali’s mobility - as it was for many of Ali’s other opponents. 70's Ali’s mobility was notably reduced though Ali could still dance but only for relatively abbreviated periods = a very big but much less mobile target for Joe. I think Joe could and would reach Ali with sufficient volume and power to allow for fair assessment and gage of Joe’s power vs Ali’s chin. My guess is that Ali would definitely feel Louis’ single shot power and of course Joe has the ability to put those power shots together in combination to potentially negate even the smallest windows required for Ali to recuperate/regroup. I think some people might be surprised as to how “little” Joe wouldn’t appear when in the ring with Ali. Joe fought some big guys in his day which might’ve given a false impression as to his own true size. Sometimes, not always, the best antidote to less than orthodox fighters can be a faithfully adhered to copybook style and executions which Louis was the epitome of, of course. It was interesting to see Ali move extravagantly against Folley but still be caught with several no-nonsense jabs and straight right hands. If Ali could take Joe’s best like he did everyone else and still remain viable - it would likely result in an Ali victory but still with some decent punishment absorbed along the way - as was the case in several of Ali's second career fights - without the prime leg mobility, taking shots became Ali's signature. The first time Joe catches Ali with some decent shots would be very revealing as to how the fight might play out Imo. Conversely, Joe's resilience (or lack thereof) to Ali's punch might be revealed early also.
I think the best version of Joe Louis has a decent chance to spark out 70's Ali, especially the later into the decade we go. Ali fought in spurts, took breaks and couldn't sustain the movement he had in the 60's. Louis' handspeed and power would make him pay for his declining skills and bad habits.
Here's what Chuvalo himself had to say about Ali's decline. Best overall: Muhammad Ali in 1966. Although his quickness was outstanding he was able to absorb a great shot and he tricked you in the ring. You could hurt Ali and never know it. By his own admission I had him in trouble once or twice, but I didn’t take advantage. I only had 17 days notice for that fight, and if I’d had an extra month of preparation then that would have helped me a lot. When Ali and I met again, in 1972, he wasn’t the same fighter. There were a few sports writers who actually thought I won the rematch, but when I tell that story now people laugh. In the second fight his speed and skills had diminished slightly and he wasn’t as consistent with his work. Amazes me we have (supposed) trainers on here who still think less than an hour or ring time will shave off 4 years of ring rust.
