Joe Louis vs Black 1930s top contenders

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Jul 20, 2008.


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  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    How would Joe Louis have done vs


    Leroy Haynes-


    Jack Trammell-


    Eddie Blunt-


    Obie Walker-


    Tiger Jack Fox-



    Thoughts opinions on each fight? styles?
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 20, 2008
    SuzieQ49, Jul 20, 2008
    #1
  2. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Don't takt it personally if not too many respond to this thread (hopefully they do, though). It's just that few have your encyclopedic knowledge of boxing. I sure don't, so I leave this discussion to others.
     
    Bokaj, Jul 20, 2008
    Bokaj, Jul 20, 2008
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  3. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Haynes was heavyhanded, but short. I think Louis keeps him at bay with the jab and then finishes him.

    Eddie Blunt--was ko'd by Savold. I don't think he beats Louis.

    Obie Walker--was really a bit older than Louis, so would have been past his best when he fought Joe. Without film, no reason to consider Obie in Louis' class.

    Jack Trammell--Tall man, but Louis generally did very well against taller opposition. He might be the best heavy on this list though.

    Tiger Jack Fox--Was really a lightheavy. Good big man beats good little man.

    Summation--one of these fighters might have pulled a rabbit out of the hat, but Louis just seems to have been better than any of them. Lack of film, though, leaves a lot of guesswork.
     
    OLD FOGEY, Jul 20, 2008
    OLD FOGEY, Jul 20, 2008
    #3
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Why not give Larry Gaines chance too? Gaines had something left in 1937-1938.
     
    Mendoza, Jul 20, 2008
    Mendoza, Jul 20, 2008
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  5. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    I don't want to start a 1930's crusade here and i certainly lack in knowledge of that era compared to other posters, but are those the best black contenders during the entire decade? The list seems a little short and weak. I mean, if you compare that to say, Wills, Langford, Jeannette, Mcvey, Godfrey and other that were before them.. it looks pretty weak. And racism was even worse during the careers of the former mentioned, so that's not an argument either.
     
    ChrisPontius, Jul 20, 2008
    ChrisPontius, Jul 20, 2008
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  6. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Those are the best contenders during the mid to late thirties. I did not include george godfrey and larry gains since they were vastly aged by the time louis came up in 1935.



    Why? because you havnt heard of them?


    Leroy Haynes twice knocked the **** out of primo carnera in one sided ugly defeats. Leroy Haynes claimed in a ring magazine article his life long dream was to get a title shot vs joe louis where he was "allowed to try his best."


    Jack Trammell was a Giant of a heavyweight with skills and a very good jab according to Historian I talked too. Trammell's grandson briefly spoke about him on boxrec. Trammell was considered for a shot at joe louis, but turned down because the high risk outweighed the reward. Trammell was too dangerous and wouldnt draw well, not a fight louis management wanted.



    Tiger Jack Fox is one of the most underated fighters who ever lived. Jersey Joe Walcott claimed in exact quote "tiger jack fox was the greatest fighter I ever fought. Better than louis and Marciano. There was not a thing in the ring That Tiger couldn't do. I leanred more from my fights with him than any fights I ever had." Tiger Jack Fox had a dangerous style, he was a bit of a marty marshall clown except he had devastating punching skills and slick defense to go along with his antics. He was not the type of fighter as a manager you wanted to throw your fighter in against. He has over 100 Career knockouts. He would have certainly been a threat to joe.


    As for Eddie Blunt, hes a fighter a couple of my newspaper reports described "louis management wants nothing to do with the Dark Spoiler". As far as questioning his talent, he was a 6' + 220lber who could box and punch. Superheavyweights abe simon and buddy baer whom louis fought 4 times, were both beaten by eddie blunt.

    Obie Walker was the coloured heavyweight champ throughout the 1930s, a big black heavyweight who was as strong as a mule and had a punch hard enough to knockdown a brickhouse. he was certainly a good fight for louis in 1935-36.


    This content is protected




    while politics in the 1980s prevented certain heavyweight unifcation matches from being made, politics in the 1930s caused most of these top blackheavyweights to be on the cuffs and throw fights to popular white fighters




    Naw, he was too old by then. he couldnt get by len harvey and jock mcvoy by that point.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 20, 2008
    SuzieQ49, Jul 20, 2008
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  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    The mid to late 1930's a down era in heavyweight boxing in terms of depth. Prior to Louis title changed hands too often, and there were some years where there were no title fights.

    You are correct. There were few talented black fighters at heavyweight while Louis was champion in the 1930's....and none of them were close to a hall of fame level.
     
    Mendoza, Jul 20, 2008
    Mendoza, Jul 20, 2008
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  8. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    I dont think they were at that level, but I do think when off the cuffs, some of these men werent far behind.

    I do think the top black heavyweights of the 1940s were at the level described above if not better.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 20, 2008
    SuzieQ49, Jul 20, 2008
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  9. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I know his name isn't on the list of the thread, but I think Lem Franklin Deserved a shot at the title before Abe Simon did. He defeated Simon twice shortly before Abe fought Louis on both occasions.
     
    mr. magoo, Jul 20, 2008
    mr. magoo, Jul 20, 2008
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  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Maghoo,


    I would have included lem franklin however he is a early 1940s heavyweight, not 1930s. thats why i did not include him. but yes louis vs franklin would have been a barn burner, it would have been the most dangerous puncher louis ever faced. Louis camp actually did want to give franklin a shot, they strongly considered him. louis management was very wear of giving shots too harry bobo lee Q murray and Elmer Ray.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 20, 2008
    SuzieQ49, Jul 20, 2008
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  11. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Leroy Haynes- HAYNES WAS BEATEN 3 TIMES BY MAXIE ROSENBLOOM, AL ETTORE, LORENZO PACK THEN HAYNES KO'D IN 3 RDS BY TONY GALENTO (WHO GOT THE SHOT AT LOUIS...GALENTO ALSO KO'D LORENZO PACK...SO GALENTO DESERVED THE SHOT


    Jack Trammell- He was beaten By Eddie Blunt,Tiger Jack Fox and Patsy Perroni (who was beaten by Louis a year earlier


    Eddie Blunt- Blunt was beaten By Naton Mann, Red Burman,Alberto Lovell, Tiger Jack Fox and Tony Galento...


    Obie Walker- Short but solid but lost to Elmer Ray,Don"red"Berry,Jack London,Willie Reddish, Trammel and Larry Gaines( Gaines lost to Walter Nuesel( who was stopped by Carnera and Schmeling) Gaines also was stopped by Tommy Farr


    Tiger Jack Fox- Fox beat a lot of guys but was beaten by Art Lasky KO5( who lost to Braddock, Maxie Rosenbloom and KO'D in 3 by John Henry Lewis who went on to be KO'D in 1 rd by Joe Louis



    I think if you look over the records clearly you can see Toney Galento beat some tough Black fighters of that era and John Henry Lewis also and even though he was blown out in 1 rd by Louis, JHL deserved the shot.......I dont think the Brown Bomber would have had any trouble with the list because he beat the fighters that beat them and fought the best of his era
     
    Bummy Davis, Jul 20, 2008
    Bummy Davis, Jul 20, 2008
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  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Well I agree with all your facts Bummy, and agree about galento and JHL. but dont u think some of these fights would have been interesting for louis?
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 20, 2008
    SuzieQ49, Jul 20, 2008
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  13. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    YES BUT YOU KNOW SUZIE THAT YOU CANT FIGHT EVERYONE...JUST STATING THAT THOSE TOUGH BLACK FIGHTERS WERE BEATEN BY OTHERS AND LOUIS BEAT THE GUYS THAT BEAT THEM, PEOPLE MAKE FUN OF GALENTO BUT LOOK AT SOME OF THE TOUGH BLACK GUYS HE BEAT TO GET THE SHOT...LOUIS ALWAYS FOUGHT THE BEST, SO DID MARCIANO..I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO SEE HIM FIGHT VALDEZ AND JOHNSON AND WALLACE AND SATTERFIELD BUT THEY WERE ELIMINATED BY THE MEN MARCIANO FOUGHT...BUT IT WAS A GOOD POINT SUZIE TO GIVE THESE GUYS PROPS BUT IT ALSO SHOWS HOW THICK WITH TALENT IT WAS BACK THEN
     
    Bummy Davis, Jul 20, 2008
    Bummy Davis, Jul 20, 2008
    #13
  14. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    SORRY FOR THE CAPS....light is bad, cant see what i am writing
     
    Bummy Davis, Jul 20, 2008
    Bummy Davis, Jul 20, 2008
    #14
  15. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    You're right...Sorry.. Franklin was part of the 40's era, not the 30's.
     
    mr. magoo, Jul 20, 2008
    mr. magoo, Jul 20, 2008
    #15
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