Joe Louis vs David Tua

I change my mind. 1951 Louis had better footwork

 

Come to think of it, how could you entertain the idea that their killer instinct was even?

If it was then surely Tua gets a lot further than he actually did?

When did Joe Louis ever think: (this guy is beating me on points, but if I don't go after him, he won't hurt me too much)?

 

In order to be a great boxer, who couldn't beat Tua, you basically have to lack two ingredients at the same time.

Is Joe Louis that man?

No, and neither are some of the men that he defeated.

 

I personally dont feel Maxy and Joe Louis are in the same class. I can see Louis' tight power punching and crisp combos bothering Tua for sure and maybe even hurting him. For Max, going hook for hook against a more sturdy, heavier, shorter puncher in Tua seems bad. To be honest, Byrd, Lewis nor Ike are good analogues of Louis for me and that's why it's hard to pick against the heavier puncher with the more stout composition. "Shuffling Joe" would have to engage with Tua, he didn't have the slickness of a Byrd nor the size of a Ike nor the rangy boxing ability of a Lewis. Even then I think Louis could pull it off but would favor Tua.

Although it makes sense to evaluate Tua's somewhat lackluster resume in comparison and I appreciate the points you bring up I just like some dang Tuaman KOs and think he gets it done

 

The second greatest heavyweight, IMO, who ever lived beats the dog crap out of him, Louis inside 10.

 

Tua is of course dangerous for the single power punch factor. Like he would naturally be for many fighters.

All else besides, Louis totally out skills David who incurs accumulating damage from Joe’s own power, power delivered via super fast hands, flawless technique and multi punch combos.

Could Louis deck Tua let alone KO him? Not impossible but less likely I would think.

But then again, Louis broke several chins in a way that had never been done before - no one coming even close to what Joe pulled off.

 

Very fair post. Louis would walk into the fire and go balls to the wall if needed. That's definitely crossing into killer instinct territory.

 

Nothing personal but that particular comment is embarrassing.

 

He was on the floor a hell of lot less than Louis and was good at hiding in his fortress to protect his chin. I'm not saying he was a defensive wizard, but he was great at surviving and protecting himself. Louis was no defensive wizard either.

Louis was good at parrying and slipping sometimes, but he got nailed and dropped a lot. He made up for it with his offense and superb technique/ring IQ.

You are confusing heart with killer instinct. I rated Louis' heart above Tua, but they were equally ferocious and knew when to go for the kills and be aggressive.

 

I really can’t understand why on this forum people treat Joe Louis like some kind of jabroni who would be knocked out by 27 different prospective opponents and think someone like David Tua who IMO was not within six solar systems of historical eliteness would on the best day of his life have anything at all for.

 

Louis gets some of the most varying critiques on the forum. There's a sizeable segment that thinks he's basically shyte and the same old stuff is always brought up in criticism. Most critiques are extremely harsh and i dare say not equitable per their regarding of others.

 

IMO the dissing of Louis comes across as people tweaking the nose of conventional wisdom and the established order just for contrariness. Plus Tua was the kind of fighter … entertaining slugger … that a lot of folks here gravitate to.

 

For me it's the size thing and era bias or lack thereof. Many can't fathom a guy pretty much bang on 200 pounds being good enough to compete with latter day bigger guys. I mean, it's worth consideration even if in this instance i can't agree with it. Then they see he's been dropped a reasonable amount of times and then the ballad of Billy Conn gets sung etc etc etc.

For me Louis just makes the cutoff size wise to be able to compete with just about anyone forward of him. His skill and ability to punch well above his weight while also being the "greatest" P4P puncher ever puts him right in the mix with bigger guys. He hits hard enough and puts them together well enough to take out almost anyone. On top of this when he did get hurt or dropped he recovered extremely fast and sometimes turned the tables while still hurt.

 

Louis would get humiliated by Byrd or Lewis.

 

Max&Buddy Baer, Braddock, Godoy, Uzcudun, Galento(?) and Carnera (without the Baer fight) were floored less times than Louis was overall.
I don't think you could make the argument any of them had better defense or footwork with maybe except Paulino Uzcudun.
There are two things to take into consideration:
1st is that Louis fought pro from 1934 to 1951. That's a huge time frame and a lot of fights against top level opposition to choose from. Louis gets criticized for his footwork because of a bad performance but then another performance where he showed stellar footwork, defense and recovery is overlooked. You can point to the Galento fight to show that Louis was static and had no footwork or defense but then when you look at either of the Baer fights he shows good footwork and slipping skills. He shows excellent slips and footwork as he skips in and out of range in the Carnera fight. Please show me one Tua performance where he showed equal footwork and defense to the Louis of the Carnera or Max Baer fights.
2nd is that Louis could be floored by big punchers, more than some other fighters who could remain standing taking those punches like Foreman, Liston or even Tua.
However there's no guarantee Tua wouldn't at least be TKO'd going against that opposition for the better part of 17 years.
I don't mean to stand in for Janitor here or derail your conversation, I just enjoy your posts and here I found a point of disagreement I thought would be interesting to bring up.