Joe Louis vs Jack Dempsey

Louis fought Willie Davies very early in his career. Johnny Davis. Then John Henry Lewis. He did fight Toles in a bout originally listed as professional, Preceding his Carnera bout. He fought Walcott twice post war. Bivins post war. Charles post war. He fought Omelio Agramonte -afro cuban - 2x post war. Andy walker post war.

He fought 3 exhibitions against Elmer Ray during the war and had the decided edge even knocking Ray cold in the 3rd bout.

During his career pre war - he faced the two best white challengers that had fared against black boxers of their day. He stopped a comebacking Sharkey in 3 rounds who held wins over Godfrey and Wills arguably the two best black heavyweight boxers of the 1920s.

He faced and defeated the great Jewish fighter Bob Pastor - 2x and Pastor cleaned out most of the leading black boxers of the era - Roscoe Toles, Lem Franklin, Booker Beckwith, Turkey Thompson, Unknown Winston, and Bivins (draw)

I recently rewatched Louis vs Charles and as great as Charles was - I am convinced from what I saw prime Louis dispatches Charles inside 10 rounds.

 

Fights not exhibitions. Not interested in the white boxers he fought or which black fighters they had fought.
Bottom line 9 black fighters out of 69 fights.

 

So you feel Louis avoided black boxers?

 

Godoy was a rematch of a split decision, in probably his hardest bout since the Schmelling loss. Paycheck was ring top 6 in February 1940, Franklin wasn't yet Ring Top 10 in that time. Franklin wasn't top 10 until February 1941

You see McVey you're making the mistake of looking at the 1941 rankings. When in actual fact the '1941 Rankings' are the rankings from February 1942.

Franklin,Toles,and Thompson weren't rated top 10 until February 1942. Louis would stop boxing in March 1942. Look at the 1941 rankings, in actual fact the rankings are from February 1942. It says so on the page, see:

[url]https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings:_1941[/url]

 

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louis caught a flush right hand cold he actually recovered well and destroyed the number 1 contender.

 

That's fascinating and something I never knew. I wish we had these bouts on film.

 

Louis stated, “If Ray shows enough against me in Miami, and if the public thinks he’s a good contender, I’ll be satisfied to have him as a contender for the title.” Ray and Louis were scheduled for their exhibition on January 25, 1949, at Miami’s Orange Bowl. The bout was scheduled for 6 rounds with each round being 2 minutes long with both men wearing 14 oz. gloves. A crowd of 12,211 paid a handsome gate of $35,658.80 to see Ray and Louis in action. From the opening bell, Ray took the fight to Louis and remained the aggressor throughout the bout. Ray bobbed and weaved, slipped and ducked scoring at times but Louis piled up points with his telephone pole of a left jab.

In the last round, they stood and exchanged blows to finish out the fight. Of course, no official decision was made because it was an exhibition but sportswriters did give their scoring of the fight. A poll of sportswriters all agreed Louis had won but Ray had put up an interesting fight. In the end, Louis had some swelling under his left eye while Ray’s right eye was swollen from Louis’ left jabs. Louis laid on a rubbing table, calm, relaxed and ready to answer questions. Someone asked if Ray ever hurt him, Louis replied: “No, he didn’t hurt me. Only landed one good one – a right hand just before the bell. Came up out of that crouch and caught me. But I did what I wanted to. I saw that right of his coming a couple of times and stopped it with a left jab. That Ray shouldn’t have any fat around the middle with all those exercises he does out there.”

[url]Embed from Getty Images[/url]

Next door to Louis, Ray was disappointed he couldn’t drop Louis but was happy with his performance. “I think I shook him up a little. I thought the whole fight was about even. It might have been different with lighter gloves…. I tagged him a couple of times,” said Ray. Some of the local papers were impressed with Ray’s showing and they weren’t alone. The Brown Bomber seemed to think Ray put up a good enough performance for another fight too. Ray and Louis met again in February of 1949 in another exhibition, for 4 rounds this time. However, the golden rule of never facing Louis twice was still in effect.

Ray didn’t do as well as he had in their previous bout and a right cross in the 3rd round put him on ***** street. Ray never hit the canvas and there was no count due to the rules in place, but the referee stood between the two for about 8 seconds to make sure he could continue. Ray finished out the fight, but he was disappointed. A week after the exhibition he got a solid win over Sid Peaks, stopping him in the 9th round. Unfortunately, the celebration was short lived.

Two weeks later Ray would lose in a shocking upset to Kid Riviera, followed by a stoppage loss to hard-hitting John Holman. Truth be told, after his loss to Ezzard Charles, he had lost a lot of his desire and motivation to fight. Ray was covered with a blanket of frustration; the end of his fighting career was near and he knew it. Then, just eight days later, the final blow was struck, ending Ray’s boxing career. Ray fought another exhibition with Joe Louis and suffered a concussion when Louis knocked him out in the 4th round. “I ain’t gonna fight no more as long as I got that concussion. I’m through. I’ve just fought too many fights too often recently. I fought a 10-rounder in Miami a week before my last bout
Louis stated, “If Ray shows enough against me in Miami, and if the public thinks he’s a good contender, I’ll be satisfied to have him as a contender for the title.” Ray and Louis were scheduled for their exhibition on January 25, 1949, at Miami’s Orange Bowl. The bout was scheduled for 6 rounds with each round being 2 minutes long with both men wearing 14 oz. gloves. A crowd of 12,211 paid a handsome gate of $35,658.80 to see Ray and Louis in action. From the opening bell, Ray took the fight to Louis and remained the aggressor throughout the bout. Ray bobbed and weaved, slipped and ducked scoring at times but Louis piled up points with his telephone pole of a left jab.

In the last round, they stood and exchanged blows to finish out the fight. Of course, no official decision was made because it was an exhibition but sportswriters did give their scoring of the fight. A poll of sportswriters all agreed Louis had won but Ray had put up an interesting fight. In the end, Louis had some swelling under his left eye while Ray’s right eye was swollen from Louis’ left jabs. Louis laid on a rubbing table, calm, relaxed and ready to answer questions. Someone asked if Ray ever hurt him, Louis replied: “No, he didn’t hurt me. Only landed one good one – a right hand just before the bell. Came up out of that crouch and caught me. But I did what I wanted to. I saw that right of his coming a couple of times and stopped it with a left jab. That Ray shouldn’t have any fat around the middle with all those exercises he does out there.”

[url]Embed from Getty Images[/url]

Next door to Louis, Ray was disappointed he couldn’t drop Louis but was happy with his performance. “I think I shook him up a little. I thought the whole fight was about even. It might have been different with lighter gloves…. I tagged him a couple of times,” said Ray. Some of the local papers were impressed with Ray’s showing and they weren’t alone. The Brown Bomber seemed to think Ray put up a good enough performance for another fight too. Ray and Louis met again in February of 1949 in another exhibition, for 4 rounds this time. However, the golden rule of never facing Louis twice was still in effect.

Ray didn’t do as well as he had in their previous bout and a right cross in the 3rd round put him on ***** street. Ray never hit the canvas and there was no count due to the rules in place, but the referee stood between the two for about 8 seconds to make sure he could continue. Ray finished out the fight, but he was disappointed. A week after the exhibition he got a solid win over Sid Peaks, stopping him in the 9th round. Unfortunately, the celebration was short lived.

Two weeks later Ray would lose in a shocking upset to Kid Riviera, followed by a stoppage loss to hard-hitting John Holman. Truth be told, after his loss to Ezzard Charles, he had lost a lot of his desire and motivation to fight. Ray was covered with a blanket of frustration; the end of his fighting career was near and he knew it. Then, just eight days later, the final blow was struck, ending Ray’s boxing career. Ray fought another exhibition with Joe Louis and suffered a concussion when Louis knocked him out in the 4th round. “I ain’t gonna fight no more as long as I got that concussion. I’m through. I’ve just fought too many fights too often recently. I fought a 10-rounder in Miami a week before my last bout

 

Thank You. This is fantastic and almost as good as a video of their fight. A sad end for Elmer Ray, fighting the champion 3 times but never officially getting an official title shot despite having the concussion to show for it. And a sad end for Joe Louis who the IRS persuid for tax evation because he signed over checks for wartime exhibitions to wartime charities.

If you have anymore information about the wartime exhibitions Joe Louis fought I'd be curious to read about them.

 

I’ll look for what I can find. The excerpt I sent you is from this link and in depth look at Elmer Ray

[url]https://thegruelingtruth.com/boxing/elmer-ray-the-humble-man-of-hastings/amp/[/url]

 

It would look like Ricky Hatton vs Pacquaio. The southpaw aspect doesn't matter. Dempsey bull -rushes his way in and gets picked apart brutally.
Jack would clinch and attempt to rough Louis up , but Joe breaks free and uses small steps just enough to give himself the space he needs to savage Jack to body and head.
Dempsey slumps face down for the count after 4 one-sided rounds

 

Nope I feel Mike Jacobs avoided black fighters for Louis to be matched with and in that he had the tacit assent of Louis' two black managers Roxborough and Black.I think the reason was purely financial.

 

At no point was Louis on the floor.There is a reason Mauriello was slow following up do you know what it was?

 

Louis wasn't in debt to the IRS because he fought for the Army and Naval Relief Funds he owed a fortune in back taxes before that.FFS!

 

Two best heavyweight ever ....how about this....dempsey wins first bout....!Louis wins second...but dempsey takes third...anyhow the all time matchup ever