Joe Louis vs. Jersey Joe Walcott I: Was it a robbery or just a close fight?

dinovelvet · Feb 2, 2014

mcvey said: ↑

I haven't seen the fight in it's entirety and have never met anyone who has, therefore I am not in a position to give a definite opinion on it. Louis in his auto biography said he had no doubt he had won because he made the fight, and Walcott did not come to fight , that is his explanation not mine.
Louis said he left the ring quickly because he was disgusted with his showing.

I think only those who have seen the complete fight are in a position to give a verdict on this.

I don't anticipate many responses them.
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I always thought he left the ring because he was convinced he lost the fight?

KuRuPT · Feb 3, 2014

well yeah.. which would also explain why he went over and apologized to Walcott for the descision. You don't apologize for a bad decision if you thought it was the right decision.

mcvey · Feb 3, 2014

dinovelvet said: ↑

I always thought he left the ring because he was convinced he lost the fight?
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That was the interpretation the press put on it but not what he said in his autobiography,he also said he apologized to walcott because it was a bad fight.The TV documentary,"How It Was," makes it clear ,from Louis himself what the thought.

KuRuPT · Feb 4, 2014

That makes no logical sense Mcvey... You don't apologize for a bad fight.. you apologize because you feel you lost but still go the verdict. How do you apologize for a bad sorry.. Hey Joe.. "I'm sorry I fought horribly tonight and actually gave you a chance to win" That's silly to even think that is why he apologized. He apologized and wanted to leave the ring because he had fought a bad fight and thought he lost. Pretty simple really.

Baclava · Feb 4, 2014

I recommend watching this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpjWU4oXLCg
Louis was a really funny guy and if you watch this you see how both talk about this fight.

frosty36 · Feb 4, 2014

McGrain said: ↑

The decision for this fight was by far and away the most controversial of The Bombers career and to this day the word used to describe it is robbery. For as long as we are discussing the fight, I have decided to take a brief look of my own at this now seemingly established fact.

The recent Manny Pacquiao-Timothy Bradley fight will be, for many, the benchmark robbery of their youth. This is a result so seemingly without explanation that of the one-hundred and twenty-five media sources I have seen produce a scorecard (including several from the guys at boxing.com) we have one-hundred and twenty-one scoring in favor of Pacquiao, three scoring in favor of Bradley, and one scoring the fight a draw. That is a ratio of around about 1:30 against those seeing the fight any other way than a win for Pacquiao.

The Pittsburgh Press conducted a ringside poll of writers at the venue the night Louis decisioned Walcott and whilst the majority, twenty-four, had Jersey Joe the winner, some sixteen had it for Louis. This is a ratio of 2:3 against.

One media source reports a Bradley win for every thirty polled.

Two media sources report a Louis win for every five polled.

The point is not that Pacquiao was robbed and so Louis was not, the point is that Thomas Hauser, Brian Kenny and the other forlorn souls who did not see a win for Pacquiao can be dismissed as statistical anomaliesthey either made mistakes or sat in a corner of the stadium that would always give birth to such a strange score. In the case of Louis, he is backed by sixteen boxing men who know the fight game. If we include the judges amongst those polled, the difference between those who see it for Louis and those who see it for Walcott starts to look more negligible.

The widest media scorecard I have been able to source for Louis-Walcott was the AP card which had it 9-5-1 for Walcott. I was unable to source more than one ringside card that had Walcott winning any more than eight rounds. Those who stood in judgment over Louis in a surprisingly rabid press that following week typically did so based on a scorecard provided for them by a ringside reporter that had Walcott winning only six, seven or eight rounds. This is exactly what almost every single ringsider has Louis scoring.

But most interesting to me were the reports made by the two sources which, rightly or wrongly, hold the most weight in my mind when it comes to deducing the reality where close, un-filmed fights are concerned. The New York Times described Louis as having been out-thought and generally made to look foolish, but the newspaper also scored the fight for the champion because he had made all the fighting, did most of the leading and, his two knockdowns notwithstanding, landed a greater number of blows.

Nat Flesicher, scoring for The Ring, also saw it for Louis.

Louis, unquestionably the puncher in the fight, landed more punches according to the Times. Whilst the newspaper men ringside tended to believe that Walcott had won, there were many who felt that the exact opposite was the case, including the men who mattered. Referee Ruby Goldstein scored it 7-6-2 for Walcott, judge Marty Monroe had it 9-6 to Louis and judge Frank Forbes had it 8-6-1 for the champion.

The highlights we have available to us seem inconclusive with neither fighter really emerging as clearly the superior of the other. In the rounds I have used to describe the Joe Louis defense, one, two and four can be scored for Walcott and three, nine, fourteen and fifteen for Louis.

But even if we had the entire fight, all we would have is a modern eye trying to interpret a fight set in 1947 with their respect for the title, their heightened appreciation of aggression and accented disdain for the retreat.

Louis was the aggressor, the puncher, the champion, and according to at least one reputable source the busier man. More than that, there were no ringside scorecards that mimicked the degree of outrage expressed by the press.

Over the years Ive come to suspectjust to suspectthat the decision was a good one.

I feel with certainty that this was no robbery. Walcott may have deserved the nod, he may not have but either way it was close. Why, then, the controversy? It is a fact that the crowd booed Louis from the ring. This has lent credence to what has become a truth by repetition. Perhaps, like Louis himself, they were disgusted with the champions performance (disgust, according to Joe, that caused him to attempt to leave the ring before the verdict was even read). More likely, they had seen Louis bamboozled by an opponent that had seemed one step ahead of him at all times. But fights are not and were not scored upon aesthetics. If Louis was out-landing Walcott and enough of those punches carried enough vim to impress two of the three judges, Joes job was done.

Finally, the fight continued to garner attention in the press because the method for scoring boxing itself was on trial. Whilst Walcott had been awarded points for his two knockdowns in rounds one and four on the supplementary system, they had in reality only gained him two rounds on the cards and whilst judge Forbes actually awarded Louis more rounds he awarded Walcott more points. When there seemed even a hint of a chance that the decision could be overturned on a technicality (it was claimed that Forbes should have reversed his decision based upon general impressions, permitted in a case where a judge awards more points but fewer rounds to a given fighter) the controversy continued to burn.

And it would burn until Louis doused it with an eleventh round knockout of Walcott some six months later. But I think he deserved his win of December 1947, too, or at least I dont consider that he was firmly beaten as the legend says. It was a close fightso close that perhaps even a handful of punches could have turned it.
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Great post :thumbsup

KuRuPT · Feb 4, 2014

Even this interview as doesn't make sense still... Yeah I did say sorry.. but that is what I always say after a fight... Ummm okay.... He seemed to be joking though... he had a smirk like he wasn't being totally honest. Which makes sense, cause it literally makes none to apologize for making a bad fight and making your opponent look like they won. You might say that to your trainer.. or wife or some such.. but you don't tell your foe.. hey sorry for making you look like you won... come on

fists of fury · Feb 5, 2014

Baclava said: ↑

I recommend watching this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpjWU4oXLCg
Louis was a really funny guy and if you watch this you see how both talk about this fight.
Click to expand...

Downloading this right now.:thumbsup

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Joe Louis vs. Jersey Joe Walcott I: Was it a robbery or just a close fight?

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Joe Louis vs. Jersey Joe Walcott I: Was it a robbery or just a close fight?

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