Joe Louis vs Joe Frazier

Yes, Perez was truly bad in that fight. Wasn't Perez also the ref in the Ali-Wepner fight? I remember Ali openly castigating Perez on Wide World of Sports one afternoon with Cosell as a "dirty dog" because of his refereeing.

 

This sometimes depends on temperament. Duran actually seemed to enjoy getting hit, while it occasionally took a hard shot to "wake" Frazier up. (Jimmy Young came right out and said, "I don't like to get hit!" Bobby Chacon, on the other hand, was always bopping his head with his own gloved fists.)

For Frazier, stationing himself inside represented the ultimate safety and comfort zone. (Starling also found it very cozy inside while blowing his first match with Don Curry.) Even Marciano and Dempsey wanted a little room to get off their shots, and Gibbons and Charles respectively became the only men to take each legend the championship distance in part by smothering their punches in close. Ali actually didn't mind going inside all that much, because he used those occasions to yank down on his opponent's necks as a draining ploy.

I think their chins are underrated, which is why I voted in favor of a time limit decision

Just about everybody hit Frazier with uppercuts, but only Foreman was able to finish the job with a diminished post FOTC Smoke. Even then, he could never keep Frazier down. While peak though, he recovered well.

I have no great quarrel with a conclusion in favor of one or the other.

This is why I applied the Louis of the Godoy rematch in my consideration of the two. It was the most evolved performance of his career in my estimation. I like the Louis of the Godoy rematch over any version of Marciano, because Rocky tended to employ the same slow and low measured pursuit in stalking his man. Frazier was considerably more active and animated in his advance, not giving his quarry an opportunity to breathe, and utilizing rapid head feints as he closed distance quickly. He'd test the accuracy of Louis, although he'd be sure to get his plenty of times. Typically though, Louis knocked out his victims with combinations after they froze into stunned immobility. I don't expect that Frazier would ever freeze still in that way.

 

You mean as an opponent, or a referee? (When I look at how Louis refereed Frazier-Quarry II, I wonder how the second round of Ali-Frazier II would have played out with Louis as the third man in the ring, rather than Perez.) That concludes my wise ass post for the day.

 

I'm referring to Louis as an opponent, to be sure Duodenum, lol, DEFINITELY not as a referee. Louis as a referee rivaled his old playmate Jersey Joe Walcott in sheer incompetence.

 

Strange how Dempsey and Sharkey could establish themselves as third men, while Louis, who tried refereeing even while still champion, could never get the hang of it. (It would be interesting to see how Liston handled Moyer-Giambra, Williams-Bailey and Cokes-Olguin.)

 

Willie Pep wasn't all that hot as a ref either..I refer to how he botched the verdict in the 1st Famechon-Harada bout..Harada deserved a historic 3rd division victory that time..

 

I think Liston would have been a real presence as a ref personally..a law and order man, I believe.

 

laxpdx, I agree---Just look at what Joe Louis did to Arturo Godoy in their second match..Godoy though not a puncher like Frazier was more rugged and harder to hit...Godoy was so low bobbing and weaving to avoid Louis, that his chin almost hits the floor, and yet Joe Louis, with left and right uppercuts, hooks and right crosses, absolutely cut the TOUGH Godoy to ribbons...I saw Ali-Frazier at MSG 1971, and I love Frazier, but no man ever could survive the terrible arsenal of punches, a prime Joe Louis could inflict...NONE... Louis by Ko 2 or 3 rounds....

 

I'm not sure, boxrec probably lists the ref. I think he probably was though. I don't remember Ali scolding him but it wouldn't surprise me.

His reffing of Frazier vs Ellis is just strange. He obviously forgot to get his work-out in so he does so in the fight... and gets way too into it.

 

I too think he would be a good ref, he knows the rules, and he would probably be strong enough to control the fight and be an enforcing figure int he ring.
Didn't liston use to be a guard at a nightclub?
Apparently, in an article I read, Ali was taunting Liston in a casino, he threw his chips all over the table, so Liston got pissed off and he told him to get the hell out or he would kill him. So Ali left.

 

I also read where Liston slapped him in the face. That was the real, outside of the ropes world..Ali knew not to **** with Liston one on one outside the ropes, lol
You sometimes need the ref to be sort of a bouncer to enforce the rules..and I think Liston would have found respect from the fighters if he was a ref.

 

Haha, yes, Liston would beat the **** out of Ali in a street fight.
I think Liston would've made a fine ref, IMO.
Go to about 0:52
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WAKQqoxnUs[/ame]
Ali was taunting liston while training, so Liston was going to charge him.

 

a tough fight for Joe but I see Joe winning by late stoppage

 

Frazier has been hurt before early in a fight. He was hurt in the first bout with Oscar Bonavena. Down twice.

5:23.....
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23jSTnq1f5A[/ame]


Frazier got up, survived....and then came back and went on to win a SD.

Against a Prime Joe Louis, it may have been different. Louis, one of the best finishers in history, may have finished Frazier off. But, Frazier is a tough guy to keep down so maybe it ends up in a TKO stoppage win for Louis or Frazier survives the round, and is able to fight on the rest of the fight.

It would be interesting because Frazier's assault is tough to deal with as well and Louis can be put down too.

 

Joe Louis by KO