Joe Louis vs Mike Tyson

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BITCH ASS, Apr 24, 2009.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Max Baer never KO'd Louis, chum.
     
    McGrain, Apr 24, 2009
    McGrain, Apr 24, 2009
    #31
  2. TheGreat

    TheGreat Boxing Junkie banned

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    Tyson has shown to carry more
    Speed
    Power in both hands
    Skill
    defense

    Speed really does kill in boxing which is why I would say Tyson was better, BTW Frazier beat Ali AFTER he was banned, I'm sorry but the Prime Ali that whipped Liston would've never had a problem with Frazier.
     
    TheGreat, Apr 24, 2009
    TheGreat, Apr 24, 2009
    #32
  3. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    Wrong Max...;)
     
    GazOC, Apr 24, 2009
    GazOC, Apr 24, 2009
    #33
  4. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sorry, don't know why Baer came up in my head, I meant schmelling.
     
    dangerousity, Apr 24, 2009
    dangerousity, Apr 24, 2009
    #34
  5. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    I agree, the fact Ali went 2-1 AFTER a 3 year layoff shows he'd have probably beaten Frazier comfortably prime for prime.
     
    GazOC, Apr 24, 2009
    GazOC, Apr 24, 2009
    #35
  6. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You know who I meant :patsch
     
    dangerousity, Apr 24, 2009
    dangerousity, Apr 24, 2009
    #36
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Totally disagree with this, I think Frazier is the tougest HW match up for Ali whatever the year. I actually pick Frazier over Liston Ali.
     
    McGrain, Apr 24, 2009
    McGrain, Apr 24, 2009
    #37
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ali destroyed Frazier in that losing effort, the FOTC. Frazier arrived in the ring with a high temperature and that was also the first night of his joint trouble. He was in hospital for 2-5 weeks depending upon who you believe, he was on a bed of ice for long periods of that time.

    Ali ruined him basically.

    And Ali would always take something from him. I suspect any trilogy would turn out the same result 2-1. But no way does your equation work. No way.
     
    McGrain, Apr 24, 2009
    McGrain, Apr 24, 2009
    #38
  9. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    The Ali that beat Liston still had a couple of years before he matured in the "prime" Ali, we never saw the real prime Ali IMHO.

    I'd say thats its very arguable that prime Frazier could have beaten the 22 year old version of Ali that fought Liston but thats still nowhere near prime for prime.
     
    GazOC, Apr 24, 2009
    GazOC, Apr 24, 2009
    #39
  10. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    What "equation"? :huh

    Ali, just off a 3 year layoff rushes into a fight with Frazier and loses the first fight but the wins the second two.....to me its clear who would win in their primes.
     
    GazOC, Apr 24, 2009
    GazOC, Apr 24, 2009
    #40
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well, if you like, to put it another way, i'd make Frazier a favourite over the best version of Ali we've seen in the ring.
     
    McGrain, Apr 24, 2009
    McGrain, Apr 24, 2009
    #41
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The one in the first message.

    I don't think the fact that Ali beating Joe Frazier after the FOTC proves that Ali would have beaten him comfortably prime for prime.
     
    McGrain, Apr 24, 2009
    McGrain, Apr 24, 2009
    #42
  13. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    Then we'll have to agree to disagree. "Comfortably" was probably stretching it a bit but I'd take an active Ali from 1966 onwards to beat any version of Frazier.
     
    GazOC, Apr 24, 2009
    GazOC, Apr 24, 2009
    #43
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    OK. But have a quick look at this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMdGNhSLE6A

    The whole video is pretty cool, but the part i am interested in is from about 1.40 to about 2.00. It's an alternative camera angle and beautifully illustrates the speed of Frazier's pressure. Ali is moving well and manages one very fast change of direction. Frazier matches it and scoops Ali into the corner.

    The speed of Frazier's pressure is what is often forgotten and would be the defining factor IMO.
     
    McGrain, Apr 24, 2009
    McGrain, Apr 24, 2009
    #44
  15. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    Great vid, I've never seen it before. But thats still Ali off a massive layoff, he'd slowed considerably which did him no favours against Frazier but probably didn't hurt against Foreman.

    Please don't think I'm dismissive of Frazier but I think he got his win against Ali in very advantageous (sp!!) circumstances and then couldn't repeat the feat.
     
    GazOC, Apr 24, 2009
    GazOC, Apr 24, 2009
    #45
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