Joe Louis vs modern giants: settling tbe debate.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Glass City Cobra, Jan 5, 2019.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Can't you see that these two positions are mutually incompatible?
     
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  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Janitor,

    The best boxers Louis faced in Schmeling, Charles, Conn, and Walcott had little problem hitting Louis. They won more rounds than Louis did, and it's not even close.

    The crude ( let's call them for what they were ) punchers in Galento and B Baer who landed something early floored Louis, suggesting once again he was not hard to hit, and not very durable. These were not knockdowns from taking a lot of punches. Once again, the defense is an issue and the chin is questioned by how quickly he went down relative to what landed.

    Nonpower hitters ( Conn, Farr and Braddock either floored or stunned Louis on film, showing his durability level wasn't very good. If Louis had a good chin, these guys would not rock him in the slightest.

    The reason Louis had a long run without being stopped is two-fold.

    1 ) The competition wasn't very good. - Source Ring Magazine. Louis had too much hand speed and power, combined with offensive skills.

    2 ) He fought few skilled punchers. Disagree with me, and please name them, you won't need more than one hand to count.

    Wlad holds the record for not being floored a champion for something like 10 years. Does he have a good chin? No, but his defense, footwork, height / reach and power compensated. In Louis case, he doesn't have the defense or footwork, and if matched vs bigger a skilled puncher, would be in for a tough night giving up his reach advantage.
     
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  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    None of this addresses the logical inconsistency, that a fighter can't have a poor chin, and poor defense, and not get stopped for ten years.

    That fighter has to have something.
     
  4. Pat M

    Pat M Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You are right, he did have something, extremely weak competition.
     
  5. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

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    :risas3:
    And the Reply-Oscar goes to....Pat M :campeon:
     
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  6. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

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    The logical inconsistency of consistent eras.
     
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  7. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    So 10 years and not once did anyone manage to land a ko punch. What does that tell us about Louis?

    That even if you wanto say he had a "trash era" and he had an average chin and was easy to hit, then tbe only logical conclusion you can reach is that he had good recovery and was good at making adjustments.

    You guys just dont get it. Louis did get rocked by average punchers but he also got hit by heavy hitters even if they supposedly lacked skill. They fought for 15 rounds with SMALL GLOVES with less padding. The math is not adding up.

    The narrative that "Louis' offense was his defense" basically implies he needed his power to bail himself out. You keep talking about how many times he was behind on the cards. Well, look at his record in rematches: all brutal kos. Look at his record when he needs a knockout to win: often a brutal ko. If this narrative is true, wouldn't that mean louis was one of the hardest punchers ever? To this day, other than mike tyson or a prime Liston, nobody had that same electrifying combination of hand speed/power/+finishing ability. As far as ive seen, nobody got let off the hook when Joe had them badly hurt.

    If you wont concede joe's punching power and ability to recover after being wobbled or hurt, then you are opening up yet another paradox! Respond very carefully.
     
  8. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    What does slow shuffling feet even mean?

    Besides a term that Ali used to paint a picture comparing his magical footwork to heavyweights of old.

    I understand why Ali used it, but not why aficionados use it in their analyses.

    What does it even mean?
    What other boxers, perhaps modern, display slow shuffling feet?

    I understand that the line between colorful boxing vernacular and actual analyses can blur a little bit, but can we finally put an analytic lense on “slow shuffling feet?”
     
  9. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    I'm guessing the original question isn't settled yet ... :lol:
     
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  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It is like I have said.

    There is no era so weak that the top fighter can go without getting stopped, without having something.

    However painful it might be to some people, to give Louis credit for something, they are ultimately going to have to!
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    If he faces non punchers and low skilled hitters yes he can. Punchers often blow out lesser competition which I already sourced. No less authority than Ring Magazine who said Louis time had the least amount of talent at heavyweight.

    Louis wasn't just a puncher, he was a very skilled puncher.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Yeah, from June 37 until June 48, he fought a collection of nobodies.
     
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  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    How many skilled punchers did he face? Name them. You will only need one hand. Go for it.
     
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Walcott
    Retzlaff
    Nova
    Schmeling
    Mann
    Braddock
    Lewis
    All good punchers.
     
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  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Look, you are just flailing around here.

    There is no such thing as an era where there are not dangerous punchers.

    Even in a weak era, any deficiencies in a fighters durability and defense will get exposed.

    If you take a fighter who is not particularly proficient in either chin of defense, and keep matching him against the best of the era, he is going to get stopped a lot.