Joe Louis vs modern heavyweights

Louis, like Dempsey, Frazier and Tyson, was really geared for destroying bigger adversaries like Simon, the Baer Brothers and Carnera.

In the predictably one dimensional Frazier's case, he was post FOTC and unmotivated for Foreman in Kingston, no longer at his peak 203 pounds, and George had freak physical strength, even shoving back the steroid saturated Morrison with casual ease, and never taking a backwards step against the identically steroid saturated Holyfield. (How a 203 pound pre FOTC Frazier does in a rematch with Foreman raises some questions, considering how he moved and got out of tight spots for four rounds in his 1976 rematch with George. Like Norton with Ali, a first time match between Foreman and Frazier would've always been a tough proposition for Joe, who did dominate Bonavena in their 1968 Championship Distance rematch while Frazier was still pre peak. Ingo wrecked Patterson the first time too.)

 

Your missing the point what I’m saying is even the Wilder of a few years ago would have lost to the same fighters he just isn’t a good boxer and never beat a world level fighter in their respective primes

You can’t amass a resume of tomato cans and when you finally start fighting real competition lose and lose badly then claim well he wasn’t in his prime

Provide me with one performance that convinces you Wilder would have been too much for Parker or Ortiz

Also remember a prime Wilder couldn’t even beat a fat as **** Fury coming off a three year coke binge

 

Really? It's clear as day you hold these losses against him as if he was in his prime while simultaneously dismissing Ortiz's loss to Wilder at the same age because he was ancient. This is a clear double standard and if you

Ortiz was certainly "real competition" as was Fury who was the best heavyweight in the world, the first two times they fought at least. He only lost badly in the second Fury fight. If he was as bad as you make out to be, Fury would've wiped the floor with him effortlessly. But he didn't. He went life and death with him on two out of three occasions and was dropped four times.

This is a strawman and completely different argument at hand.

Just because I claim Wilder was shot against Parker, doesn't necessarily mean I think a prime Wilder wins. Cleveland Williams was shot against Ali, does anyone.... well actually that's a bad example. Williams probably turns the tables there.

Fury was 256 1/2, which is the lightest he'd ever weighed in ten years barring two occasions. He also hadn't touched any drugs since May of '17 at the latest and shaken off a considerable amount of rust.

 

The Fury in the first fight was still getting back to his physical best he had no power and had literally focused on dropping a load of weight everyone at the time said he wasn’t ready and he still completely outboxed Wilder who aside from two knockdowns did nothing in the fight it was a clear robbery

Also Wilder fought pretty much the same in the Parker fight not letting his hands go simply because he wasn’t given any openings

For the third fight Fury didn’t even have a proper camp with his daughter being born premature and he still knocked him out

 

No real evidence Louis matched up well with larger men given the big men he fought were decisively blown out by other much smaller men on multiple other occasions including some guys who were not very good even by the standards of their era like Lem Franklin and Leroy Haynes

 

You don't think Joshua quit against Ruiz?
Also there's no way you can convince
me (At least) that fighters today are
harder mentally than fighters from Louis's
era.
Louis era fighters lifestyle and what they
had to deal with during that era made them
harder mentally.....

 

Gunnar Barland's stoppage of Buddy admittedly should also be cited, but Barland did it by injuring his body, using his own height against him by going underneath. Barland was 6'2" Haynes was 6'1" and Lem Franklin was 6'2" while we know how big Louis was also.

Based on the Dempsey-Willard and Dempsey-Firpo footage, and the durability of both Jess and Luis when in condition, particularly Firpo (who after his second bout was apparently only decked when Wills sucker punched him), when considering the fact Jack put Willard on the deck seven times in the second minute and a half of round one, and Luis nine times in two rounds, do you consider the evidence for Dempsey matching up well with larger men to be much stronger than it was for Louis?

Now I'm not asking you if you're a fan of Jack's, as many here despise, ridicule and dismiss the Mauler, just who was relatively better against larger opponents between only the two of them, factoring in the durability of those opponents. (Personally, I do consider Dempsey better against larger men than the Bomber. Jack himself wrote that Fulton had a glass jaw, so I don't count the Plasterer when considering Dempsey's quality against larger men.)

 

He's talking about Chisora and Joyce.