Joe Louis vs. Ray Mercer

I see a bad matchup for Ray. Meeting a fighter like Louis at mid-range is just bad news and I see a lot of exchanges going on from mid to close range. Pretty much exactly where you don't want to be when you're fighting Joe Louis. Just curious Pea why do you rate him low h2h?

 

Joe Louis was better than Lennox Lewis.

Ray Mercer was nothing special.
A 42 year old Larry Holmes outboxed a prime Mercer clearly. Mercer was outoxed by Jesse Ferguson, and that was barely a fluke because I seem to remember Ferguson ran him close in a rematch.

Mercer was durable and a fairly good boxer, but Joe Louis was a master boxer-puncher.
The best Mercer could be expected to do is to go the distance and put up a spirited effort and steal any rounds Louis takes his foot off the pedal. Over 10 or 15 rounds though, Louis would inflict damage.

 

I strongly disagree with this statement.

 

Size, speed, and defense. Slow of foot, not the best defensive fighter, and certainly nothing like the modern Super Heavyweights in size. I do believe he would beat Mercer though, make no mistake about that, but that it would be a bit more competitive than most think.

 

But seriously guys Sweet Pea has a point. Joe Louis was not invincible to these type of fighters, although I would have him winning against Ray Mercer myself.

 

Mercer was wildly inconsistent and even though on his very best night he give Lewis a close'un, I thought that was maybe slightly more down to the fact Lennox got drawn into fighting Mercers fight rather than simply boxing behind the jab and using his superiority on the outside. (which would have likely got him a more emphatic points win).

Mercer could hit fairly hard, was very durable and had a reasonable amount of ability but Louis is better in almost every department and it's his fight to lose. He wouldn't: Louis, fairly wide UD.

 

On a serious note now, Sweet Pea has an extremely valid point.

Even if we are to ignore era bias, Louis is not as talented or as hard hitting and skilled as Lennox.

 

:yep :yep

Feet were flat and slow as a turtle mate, no effective use of the guard, weak-pawing jab and the bad habit of dipping, even with quick hands and good power(CW) are not enough to defeat Ray Mercer.

Then we can go into his chin and other forms of reality, such as a totally unskilled tub who wouldn't even be a top 150 today actually dropping him, but that's all excusable while we criticise Ali for getting a few gift decisions.:yep

 

Damn, you had me impressed for a bit...

You're coming around though, it's inevitable, once you stop listening to the diatrabe of goons like Janitor.:yep

 

What makes you say that? Louis' power is certainly right up there in that same top bracket and he was the slightly better combination puncher and the better inside fighter. Lewis has the obvious size and strength advantage, skills wise there's very little to choose between 'em although Lennox is better when boxing from distance.

There really ain't much in it.

 

If you say so, but, I've never seen Lennox commit any of the horrendous technical problems that I have with Louis on film.

Speed and timing are in different universes, in Lennox's favour of course.

 

I think Louis has better combinations, probably about equal power, but i don't think it's a that bad statement.


Sorry, but i can't imagine Lennox going 13 rounds with a 174lbs guy while down on the cards.

I also think Lewis was a bit more versatile in that he could fight aggressive or on the backfoot all night. Joe always stalked although he did make some adaptations, like in the Galento fight where he used clever movement to neutralise those leaping left hooks. But usually, Joe needed a rematch to adapt. Now that i think about it, you could say the same about Lewis' fights with McCall and Mercer, which brings us back to Mercer.

Mercer is one of those guys who can give a great fighter a life-and-death struggle one night, and struggle with a journeyman the next.


I think any outcome including or in between Louis winning a very close decision while being knocked down and Louis winning a landslide decision is plausible.

 

This is a very tough and dangerous fight for Louis. Mercer is a tough test for most all time greats, and could have been the man in certain periods of heavyweight history. It depends on which Mercer shows up. Mercer on his better nights had a very good jab, which is a punch that found its mark on Louis. Mercer had a good right hand, and turned into a terror when his man was hurt. Of course Mercer had one of the best chins of all time.

Louis of course had one of the best offenses of all time in terms of variety, speed, and power. Fairly accurate too. Louis also had plenty of stamina. He would not gas out and let Mercer come on.

I think the match boils down to this. Louis would be able to beat Mercer to the punch, listen to his corner, and probably take Mercer's will for mixing it after a few hard exchanges. Strategy and adjustments was never Mercer's forte. Louis was more likely to listen to his corner, and keep heart. I’ll go with Louis via a hard fought decision. There is a good chance Louis would go down once or twice before it’s over.

 

Louis' main problem was foot speed, not hand speed. Louis would not need to be too swift afoot to catch up with Ray. If Ray runs, it will be the form of running he did against Morrison. Mercer is never going to look like Hector Camacho, or Larry Donald even.

Lewis was not so swift afoot either. That is why he had trouble with Mercer. If he had great footwork, he wouldn't have fought Mercer that way. Lewis needs room to punch, and the thick bearded Mercer was walking into him. Mercer didn't respect his power enough to stay off him. If he had great footwork, he would have outmaneuvered Mercer and set up better angles.

Now, in terms of Morrison being faster, I don't know that I agree. Morrison fought at a higher tempo in the earlier rounds, I don't know that he was moving any faster in regards to punching.

Louis, being a smaller fighter than Lewis, needs less room to punch. He is also faster in his combinations. He may not be as powerful a Lewis, but he is the more composite puncher. Louis appears to have had better hand speed than Mercer, and is straighter to the point. Louis would beat Mercer to the punch most of the time. I feel that Mercer would eat a lot more clean punches, and have his extremely tough body attacked throughout. No matter how durable a fighter is, I can't see them taking that the full distance.

 

I think Louis had issues with both footspeed and hand speed. He was also easy to coutner. While Louis lacked quick feet, that is only part of the equation as to why he was hit. Louis had a flawed type of defense that had a low guard, was somewhat stationary, and had a stick your chin forward type of stance.

Skilled fighters with some speed like Schmeling, Farr, Pastor, Walcott, and Conn tee'd of fon Louis at times on film. Farr and Schmeling were not that fast on their feet. I think Mercer with his jab could land on Louis just the same.