joe louis vs slapsie maxie rosenbloom...

And guess who stopped Lem Franklin in 1942? None other than Bob Pastor who weighed 181 pounds to Lem Franklin's 197 pounds....
Bob Pastor also beat such fighters as Jimmy Bivens, Gus Lesnevich,booker beckwith, Turkey Thompson etc...
Bob Pastor at 181 pounds was great boxer, but Billy conn and Joe Louis had Pastor's number...
Lem Franklin was similiar to Billy Arnold and Billy Fox.,,All great punchers who folded at the top echelon of their divisions...

 

Wladimir was the # 1 ring magazine contender for TWO straight years(without ever losing the ranking during those two years). This means he was the best to fight out there. You are supposed to fight whoever the # 1 man is by Ring Magazine. Wlad should have automatically been first in line over the lower rated byrd(whom he smashed).

 

Sweet. He stopped a semi blind Franklin. Congrats.

In 1941 while Franklin was still healthy, he knocked out big abe simon in 5 rounds moving himself up to # 2 in the rankings. What does Joe do? he gives abe simon the shot instead! There is no justification for abe simon getting the shot over his higher rated conqeror, lem franklin.

 

Louis fought Abe for nothing. It was a charity bout.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=5115,2082503&dq=lem+franklin+pastor&hl=en

 

Melio Bettina--because he was a southpaw, unique among top heavyweights in those days.

 

"a semi blind Franklin"

What is the source for this? Harry Bobo had the eye problems from what I can google, not Franklin. I found no evidence of this. Could you give me a source?

Franklin was coming off 19 straight, 17 by ko's. Quite a performance for someone who was semi blind. When did these eye problems hit? And if he was semi blind for Pastor, wouldn't he also have been for Louis?

Actually, Franklin had run up his record mainly against second tier guys like Musto and Simon, as well as a young Bivins and a young Curtis Sheppard. Pastor was the "name" fighter who would solidify his claim to a shot at the title. Pastor took a bad beating early and was down in the second, but he hung in there as he always seemed to and came on to hurt Franklin with a left hook and then pound him with a volley of punches until Franklin collapsed.

Off the reports I am reading, Franklin's fights follow a pattern. He dominates early--Pastor, Bobo, Lee Savold twice, were knocked down early and in deep water. All get up to win. The Pastor and Savold fights were similar, with Pastor and Savold surviving early batterings to come on to ko Franklin late.

Had he beaten Pastor, a shot at Louis seems to have been in the works.

The New York Times 2-25-1942

"Pastor, by virtue of his eleventh straight victory, becomes the official number 2 challenger behind Billy Conn according to the ringside announcement of Fred Sady of Milwaukee, chairman of the National Boxing Association's rating committee. Thus Pastor blasted Franklin's hope of a September title shot with Joe Louis."

 

Well stated OLD FOGEY....Bob Pastor at 181 pounds was able to handle larger men such as Lem Franklin, with the proper skills...Pastor aside from Joe Louis and Billy Conn was one of the top big men of his era...

 

Old Fogey...I will address the other points later...but there is no reason Abe Simon should have gotten a 2nd title shot over Lem Franklin. Yes, I understand it was for charity, so why couldn't Franklin fight in Simon's place? Franklin was the # 2 ring magazine contender in the world, and had knocked out Abe Simon.

 

Louis was not going to risk the title for nothing vs the number 2 contender, a lower rank contender would have fit the bill pretty nice.

What would have happen if Lem scored the upset?? Louis would have been sol.

If fighting for free, its better to take the less risk.

 

Simon wasn't 2nd teir. he was rated top 5 in the world.

He knocked out Lee Savold in 1939, who was rated # 10 in the world. You consider a Prime Lee Savold 2nd tier?

He knocked out Willie Reddish and Eddie Blunt, two good fighters. Anytime you knockout Jimmy Bivins, that is impressive. He is an ATG.



I think the fact he was so dominant against opposition during his 19-0(17) run was important to him getting boosted to # 2 rating, and a earned title shot against Joe. Franklin was a dangerous puncher, a threat early to Louis.

 

1. I am sorry. I must have wrote that late at night. I confused Franklin with Harry Bobo. Franklin did not have eye problems. He did however earn a title shot in 1941. his manager was crazy for signing him to fight Pastor and then Bobo after already earning his shot. Has he ever heard of protecting your fighter?

Yes this seemed to happen post 1941. Franklin either had very poor stamina or something seemed to go wrong with him during this period. I mean, franklin was so dominant and consistent in 1940-1941..then all of a sudden tails off and loses to 6 out of 8 in a row.

 

Joe would have done himself no favors whatsoever in taking this. If he won, would there be a ton of credit in it for him? A lose-lose proposition if you ask me.

 

You prove my point...Franklin posed a threat to Joe Louis,with very small gate returns for the Brown Bomber...At LEASt Dempsey did sign for Harry Wills,but after the contract signing,the bout was cancelled because of money issues...Robinson never fought a host of "murderous row boxers in his time...Is it right ? No, but boxing is a business and boxers vdo what's best for their career...Jack Dempsey should not be singled out, when it';s common practice...Dempsey at his peak a mean SOB and Harry Wills, was a great fighter, but circumstances prevented them meeting...
A side note-I once saw a grey haired ,tall Harry Wills in Stillmans gym in 1945-46,standing about 5 feet away from me watching the fighters train..

 

Good god burt how old are ya? Give us a hint, Give us a glimmer.

 

New York Times 2-26-1942

"Private Joe Louis of the United States Army will make a donation to the Army Relief Fund that will be comparable to his donation to the Navy Relief Society.

Louis would again contribute his entire purse, less training expenses, to the fund.

Simon, following the example of Buddy Baer in the Navy Relief Fund fight, will recieve 15 per cent but will turn back 2 1/2%.

Louis will fight for nothing. Jacobs will promote for nothing. And the challenger will get 12 1/2%."

Suzie is quite a critical person. Louis is being slammed for a fight in which he gets nothing and the promoter gets nothing and Simon is turning part of his purse back for charity. Note that Louis was already in the army.

This was obviously a "patriotic" fight, also designed to sell war bonds. It just isn't comparable to the usual championship defenses.