Joe Louis vs Sonny Liston of 1960?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Richard M Murrieta, Jul 18, 2020.


  1. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Podcast EVERY SOMETIMES youtube.com/lordlegender Full Member

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    Tbf if we go off the notion that Ingemar was washed after his fight with Patterson then the London fight is easily explainable

    I think it's pretty undebatable that Ingo wasnt in the right mind for at least the 3rd fight, coming in 10lbs heavier than the previous 2 fights. It was still incredibly close.
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So, at the age of 28 with just 24 fights Ingo was washed up? Or just maybe he was never that good in the first place?
     
  3. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    I'd make him a favorite over Hart, Burns, Willard, Carnera, L. Spinks, Briggs and Rahman.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think Briggs and Rahman stop him and I'm not confident he would beat Willard.
     
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  5. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    He was much better fighter than Briggs. His chin wasn't excellent, so it's possible that he'd stop him but I find it very unlikely.
     
  6. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Podcast EVERY SOMETIMES youtube.com/lordlegender Full Member

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    Yes he was washed, despite being young his mind wasn't in the right place and he was lazy with training
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So he was still in his prime but too lazy to get into condition.
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes I go along with that. Sonny was very game in that fight. He certainly went down fighting.
     
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I think what they are saying is that the two astonishing back to back wins over Machen and Patterson really show that Ingo was really something special back then.

    Time has shown that After the shattering knockout from Floyd however, Ingo never really got his mojo going again.

    Floyd really beat a special unbeaten fighter in his prime when he recaptured the title...and I think it was certainly Seen that way initially at the time. However, the rematch was too hard fought for either guy to really look that great of a fighter I think. And it looks a level below the two previous fights where one or the other showed that they could win emphatically. This was a rough fight that took a lot out of both guys too.

    that Ingo never was the same kind of fighter ever again probably robs Floyd of the credit he deserves-because it just looks like Ingo went off the boil once he became champion. Maybe he did. Maybe he could never hope to be the same again after that hard knockout. The evidence is he never was as good. And probably neither was Floyd.
     
  10. William Walker

    William Walker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    finally! Ingo has got to be the worst one-trick pony in the business, and the most overrated heavyweight champion of all time by far
     
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  11. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No Sir you interpreted the post that by Choklab that you agreed with incorrectly.
    The earliest year that he presented was 1929, so the oldest he could have been when he died is 40-41l
    And as he cited, some folks look much older than they are.
    Hard living & genetics play a strong part.
     
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  12. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I normally read everything on a thread before answering.
    But I do not see the evidence that most experts believe Liston was born before 1930-or sometimes 1929.
    The census & most testimony seems to point to 1930 or so.
    His Sister's belief does not trump his Mothers.
    Feel free to tell me why you believe that this strongly sourced summery from Wikipedia is incorrect:

    There is no official record of Liston's birth. His family's home state of Arkansas did not make birth certificates mandatory until 1965.
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    His family, but not one Charles (or Sonny) Liston, can be found in the 1930 census, and in the 1940 census he was listed as 10 years old.
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    It has been suggested Liston himself may not have known what year he was born, as he was not precise on the matter. Liston believed his date of birth to be May 8, 1932 and used this for official purposes
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    but by the time he won the world title an aged appearance added credence to rumors that he was actually several years older.
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    One writer concluded that Liston's most plausible date of birth was July 22, 1930, citing census records and statements from his mother during her lifetime.
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  13. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I dont think Ingo was special ,and if he had honoured the rematch with Machen I'd probably put a couple of £ on Eddie. He ko'd a fragile Patterson once in 3 goes and hit Machen with everything including the kitchen sink before he stopped him.Shallow resume, pawing jab, average chin at best and I'm not sold on his ticker either. A one trick pony with not enough meat in his sandwich.
     
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    You are entitled to believe Machen could win the rematch but that would only be a hunch wouldn’t it? That Ingo flattened both Machen and Patterson, at a time when they were the best two heavyweights in the world (whilst Sonny Liston was barely ranked in the top ten) shows what really happened. It’s not a hunch. Nobody could do better. All anyone could do is Match that. How can you surpass that? There was no more emphatic result anyone could score in two fights that year. That’s factually special. Takes some doing.

    It is only “not special“, if you rely on theory or hunches.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
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  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Exactly right.