Joe Louis vs Sonny Liston of 1960?

How do you know it was World War 1? By "big war" she could have been talking about the feud they had with the neighbors 6 months earlier.

 

Has anyone got the faintest of ideas what this says?

What is wrong with this guy?

 

Louis by late TKO.
Quickness is the most important advantage here. Joe is gonna get off first and get off last. He's going to start the exchange and finish it. The Brown Bomber is the superior counter puncher as well.

 

If you go to the National Archives in Washington, DC and pull up the microfilm for Forrest City, Arkansas you will find Tobin Liston’s 1930 census family card. But Charles L. Liston is not on it. His mother, Helen, is listed, as are his sisters Clytee, Annie and Alcora, and his brothers J.T., Leo and Curtis, who is the youngest at six months. This means that Liston could not have been born before late 1930 and that the oldest he could have been when he fought Ali the first time was 33-years-old.

The 1940 U.S. Census reports have been released. Tobin Liston and his family come into view on a rented farm in backwater Smith Township on April 23rd of that year. They moved there from backwater Johnson Township sometime between 1930 and 1934. Tobin was sixty-seven and working on the farm sixty hours a week despite his advanced age. Helen was minding the chores in and around the rented shack and it’s easy to conjure up a picture of her wiping her hands on an apron as she greets the census taker. It would have been her who gave the names and ages of the children: Leo (“17”), Annie (“15”) and Alcora (“13,” called “Cabbie”), and there, between eleven-year-old Curtis and two-year-old Wesley, “Charles L” appears on record for the first time.

His age is given as “10” which means that 1930 is the likeliest year of his birth.

 

Well that settles it. Thread/

 

Who did Williams beat?

 

It always comes down to the big Cat for these guys. Every time!

 

We all want to know the answer to that one...

 

I think this is virtually 50/50.
I’d give a slight edge to Louis.
Sure Joe has the greater hand speed but I still think he’d have a problem with Sonny’s ramrod jab, remember Joe is well outreached here, and is virtually always in the pocket. Of course this means Sonny is always in range of Joe’s counters, but Sonny had good upper body and head movement and and would make it difficult.
I think this boils down to who could establish the jab and with Louis having the faster hands and despite being outreached I think Louis would prevail here.
Both would take hits though and Louis may have to come off the canvas to win a close hard fought UD.

 

How do you know that Liston punched harder than Louis? Louis did some terrible things to the most durable fighters in the world. His power looks spectacular on the film as well. Nobody punches clearly harder than Louis.

I agree that Liston is likely a bit stronger physically, but Liston wasn't a mauler and I doubt he'd make the advantage of that. He was a boxer and he'd box with Louis.

Better chin is arguable, he was harder to knock down but Louis was stopped once in his prime after countless of right hands eaten from Schmeling (very strong puncher). Even when Louis was way past his prime and his reflex eroded, he wasn't stopped until Marciano fight. There is no reason to doubt Louis chin, he fought more fights against better competition than Liston and still was stopped less times.

Better jab can be tricky, Liston has reach advantage, but Louis jab was also very heavy and quick.

I hope that you can also see Louis advantages: hand speed, footspeed, stamina, inside fighting and versatility.

 

Ernie Terrell, Alex Miteff, Billy Daniels, Roger Rischer, John Holman, among others. The only reason their aren't more names on Williams' resume is that people wouldn't fight him!

 

Prob. closer than expected. Due to Louis speed and and precise short inside punching, which is a severe advantage against these long slow arms of Sonny.
If anyone staggers the other, this fight might be over.

 

Liston hit much harder than Louis. Liston's power has been compared favorably to that of Foreman by Wepner, Tocco (who'd also seen Tyson), Ali and Scrap Iron. Liston belted an all time great heavyweight champion in his prime inside a round back to back! He also stopped numerous people who'd never been stopped before including Wayne Bethea who he'd knocked out inside of a round and knocked 7 teeth out of! And knocking out teeth was nothing new to Liston, as he'd done the same to numerous sparring partners who didn't usually last very long "Liston hits so hard in training, even with 16-ounce gloves that he is unable to hold sparring partners over a day or two" Obviously their are many more examples of Liston's power that I could bring up, but I think I've made my point.

I disagree, he could use his strength when he wanted to as he demonstrated against Patterson.

Liston had the much better chin, their's really no getting around this. Go see my recent thread for reference.

Louis himself said when asked how he'd fight Liston "I wouldn't jab with him". Also, men who sparred with and/or fought both testified that Liston's jab was better.

Agreed, though Liston was no slouch in either of these departments. I also don't think that Either man's footspeed was anything to write home about.

 

No fighter in history hit much harder than Louis.

None of them faced Louis.

Louis stopped Schmeling in one round. He also destroyed Max Baer who had iron chin. I mean, that's not an argument against Louis.

Again, Liston was murderous puncher but this argument isn't against Louis either. Joe stopped more durable fighters than anyone: Uzcudun, Braddock, Max Baer, Buddy Baer, Godoy, Farr, Mann, Conn and countless others. To doubt Louis power by results of fights is ridiculous.

He didn't maul Patterson though, besides Louis was bigger and stronger than Floyd.

Their jabs are different - Liston had longer but slower jab. They used it differently.

Who did spar prime Joe Louis and prime Liston?

Louis certainly had better footwork, Liston struggled with cutting off the ring.

 

Eye test and the people they both KO'd.
Louis benefited from gloves with less padding, which enhances the damages he caused when he punched.

Tyson did.

Liston is more than just "a bit stronger", and he's gonna benefit from that in clinches.

Better chin is not arguable at all, Liston has a clear advantage. And Louis did not fight better competition, not by any means.

Apart from the reach advantage, Liston also has far more power in his jab.

I agree that Louis has the clear edge in terms of hand speed, stamina and inside fighting. But not about foot speed, he was flat footed and had trouble with movers. This doesn't favor Liston by any means, cause he was also slow, I'm just pointing out both lack in this department.