Both guys suffered shattering knockouts in this series of fights. Patterson was decked nine times within the series. Ingo knocked down 4 or 5 times I think including one very serious concussion where he was out for minutes and twitching. I think it’s safe to say the two guys were not really the same afterwards.
Ingo wasn't, but Patterson wasn't. Patterson had good fights to come: Machen, Chuvalo, Cooper, Quarry (twice), Ellis, and Bonavena. Too many good showings to not include any of them in his prime.
Yeah, Patterson probably doesn’t get credit for his post Liston record. In many ways Floyd overshadowed Sonny after their series. Those post Liston wins Floyd had easily eclipsed Sonnys later career. I often wonder how the post Ali version of Sonny might have fared against Chuvalo, Bonavena, Ellis and Quarry.
I have often wondered about Liston as well. He faced decent names in Martin and Wepner, but maybe from '65 to '68 he actually had the potential to beat some world class fighters. It's difficult to say since he didn't fight any in that time period. I do think Patterson gets underrated for his post Liston fights. I do think he lost much of his power and aggression, but I think he was a great fighter, beating Chuvalo, Machen, Bonavena, and Cooper. He got robbed in Quarry 1 and Ellis, and gave a good account of himself in Quarry 2. Few fighters in any era of any division could boast such longevity against so many world class fighters. Patterson was in great condition up until he retired.
Points don't make a fight truly close. Every fight requires the human eye to judge whether or not a fight was close (just not the eyes of the judges).
I love Machen and have a lot of sympathy but no this was not a close fight in any sense of the word. I, as well as many people (including our own McGrain) gave Liston all but one or two rounds.
Eddie Machen was a good fighter, even schooled a young Jerry Quarry in their match, but was clearly dominated by Floyd Patterson on July 5 1964. Eddie did almost pull it off against Ernie Terrell on March 5 1965 in round 15, for the vacant WBA Title. The crowd booed the verdict, so did the closed circuit television audience.
First Patterson simply "didn't show up" as you put it and now he was damaged goods despite being in his mid-20s and still in his prime. You will do anything and I mean ANYTHING to devalue and downplay Liston's 2 wins over Patterson. You're persistent I'll give you that much Liston knocked out an ATG Heavyweight champion in the first round TWICE back to back. This is a huge accomplishment, and hasn't been done before or since. It is likely the greatest pair of victories in history. DEAL WITH IT.
No Patterson was better after! Never thought much of Ingo,in the right place at the right time , he wouldnt have beaten the previous 4 champs before Floyd, nor any of those that came after for several decades, a lucky guy imo.
Its always complicated with Liston. After Lewiston Maine the public wanted Sonny to just go away. He wasn't popular before now he was disgraced. So Sonny went to Sweden and made a living, knocking out journeymen. All the things that he had going on IMO doubt he wanted any pressure or anything resembling a challenge at least till he got his head together. He did eventually try to make some noise in 1967-8 he did beat Henry Clark by brutal KO and ask for Quarry. Clark would have KOd Patterson Liston's story is such a fascinating one. Well never know all the things that went on.
I understand that Joe Frazier's camp steered clear of Sonny Liston, style was all wrong for Joe, even though Sonny was past his prime.
