Joe Louis vs. Vitali Klitschko

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by KOTF, Aug 17, 2009.



  1. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    I'm sorry, I didn't hope for him to be injured but when I heard he was out for the season I couldn't help but do a few fist pumps. I mean, that was one force to keep us from winning. You still sound bitter about the Pats not making the playoffs last year. My excitement boils down to your excitement about Vitali being knocked out.

    I can't disagree with this. I think he's a borderline top 5 QB. Last year he led the league in comeback touchdowns in the 4th quarter. He's quite clutch. I think he's a top 5 borderline QB.

    Yea. Pats have more promise. They get old real quick and it showed last year. Galloway is a fast receiver (Joey Galloway. Right? I hate him too :lol:) but he's aging. He'll be of much help though. The Pats will fly by in that division because it's a weak division. Most of the teams are decent to good but Pats really stand out. Maybe we can have another Pat vs Giant superbowl finale again. You must like the Giants to enjoy watching their performance against your favorite team's loss in a perfect history season. That was arguably the greatest Superbowl in decades and certainly a terrific upset.

    By the way do you watch Entourage? I ask because my feelings about Tom Brady are somewhat close to Turtle's (Character in show). That would give you perspective from a Giant's fan I guess. No doubt I respect him though. It's like hating Michael Jordan. I hated him. He kept my Knicks from winning and Ewing ringless. Obviously now I really like him. Time has past and the scars have healed. His talent is unbelievable and I can enjoy him much more. The same will help for Brady. And since he has a had a rough last year my hate has cooled off. It's not like a hate for The Eagles, Redskins, or Cowboys. It's not the hate on the level like I did for Tony Romo.
     
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    He made me yearn for the days of Gary Mason (who, incidentally, I'd rate as something like a better version of Samuel Peter).

    Admittedly, Danny Williams' fame and "over-rating" was inevitable because of Mike Tyson. But there's no excuse now.
    It's also an indicator of how weak American heavyweights have become that Americans show interest in mediocre Brit heavyweights now and tend not to scoff at them even when perhaps they should, whereas 20 or 30 years ago better than average Brit heavyweights wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting respect from America. By 1987 The Ring magazine prefered to rank fighters like Jose Ribalta and Adilson Rodrigues over Frank Bruno, and who noticed Horace Notice ?
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    The NFL puts on a good show. Question for SuzieQ. The New England Patriots were caught cheating by video taping opposing coaches signals, then relaying it to their defense. When I watched New England, it was as if the players were always in the right formation and defense. It appears they knew the call in advance, which is a huge advantage in any sports, including football. The commissioner fined New england heavily, and docked them of their first round pick in the draft.

    Since you come down hard on some fighters for cheating, does the same standard apply for your football team too?
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    If Jack Sharkey is that good, why did he lose 14 times? Sharkey was off and on. Skilled, but with a suspect chin. I think Gomez could put up a good effort vs either Shareky or Schmeling. I'd pick Sharkey or Schemling, but it would not surprise me if Gomez upset them.
     
  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    What does Sharkey chin have to do with a matchup between He and Gomez. Gomez was not a puncher, and sharkey was never stopped by a man who couldn't hit. Gomez certainly would not stop him.

    2ndly...It is Funny you should question sharkeys chin, when Juan Carlos Gomez got sparked in 1 round by club fighter Yanqui Diaz! did sharkey ever get knocked out by such a fighter?

    Sharkey ONLY got knocked out by ATG punchers louis(past his prime), Dempsey(very controversial) and then by Carnera(controversial). Technically the only non controversial stoppage loss he suffered was against Louis, when sharkey was well past his prime. considering sharkey survived the two biggest punchers of the era in Harry Wills and George Godfrey as well as Max Schmeling, I doubt he has a suspect chin in general.

    Horay for the good effort. "Good Effort" does not win rounds on judges scorecards. SKILL does. Schmeling and Sharkey were head and shoulders above Gomez in this department.



    Why don't we compare there heavyweight resumes shall we?


    Sharkey beat:

    George Godfrey- 6'4 225lb Hall of Fame Heavyweight
    Harry Wills- 6'3 210lb Hall of Fame Heavyweight
    Max Schmeling- Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion
    Tommy Loughran- Hall of Famer rated top 5 in Heavyweight Division
    Primo Carnera- 6'5 260lb Heavyweight Champion. Sharkey won 14 rounds to 1
    Young Stribling- 210-9 Hall of fame Heavyweight
    Jack Delaney- Hall of Fame lightheavyweight/top 10 rated heavyweight
    Jim Maloney 3x- 200lb Top 10 Ring Magazine Heavyweight
    Mike Mctigue- Hall of Famer
    Bud Gorman- 200lb Top 10 Ring Magazine Heavyweight
    Johnny Risko- Top 10 Ring Magazine Heavyweight
    Jack Renault- Top 10 Ring Magazine Heavyweight
    Floyd Johnson- Top 10 Ring Magazine Heavyweight



    Gomez beat:

    Oliver Mccall- 42 years old and Unrated
    Vladimir Virchis- Top 10 Ring Magazine Contender. Powerful Puncher.
    ???????




    Sharkey overwhelmingly has the better resume. Both in Quality and Quantity. Also Sharkey performed far better against Dempsey than Gomez did against VK. Sharkey won almost every round vs Jack and nearly knocked Jack out...while a Old VK dominated Gomez.
     
  6. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    Wasn't this like so 2 years ago? Have you not gotten over it already. What about the Yankees with Steroids, Pittsburgh Steelers of the 70s with Steroids, Denver of 97-98 fooling with the Salary Cap? It is not like this is the first time.

    As to answer your question:

    Sure they get penalized, and got penalized. They lost a First round Draft Pick. Now let me document some evidence for you....There is NO EVIDENCE to suggest patriots videotaped in any of there superbowl winning years and Goodell said so himself. Senator Arlen Spector sought out to find evidence of patriots "Cheating" in 04 and found nothing. Jimmy Johnson of the Dallas Cowboys actually ADMITTED he used to do the same thing with the cowboys in the 1990s.

    2ndly While the patriots did get caught breaking a rule, it was NOT the taping that was illegal. In fact, you are allowed to tape opposing defenses. It was the LOCATION of the carmera that the patriots got in trouble for. Many people forget this.


    I do think the patriots were wrong for what they did, they got punished by loss of first round draft pick. Did any of this have to do with 2001-2004? I don't think so, and evidence verifies my opinion. Even if it did...Surely the Patriots going 16-0 in the regular season in 2007 AFTER they got "caught" being under close surveillence surely shows they had the goods all along and did not need some "Camera" to win them all those big games.

    Great Coaching. Bill Belichick is an X's and O's Genius. If you cannot see this, if you think its all cheating...then my friend you must think the NFL is tainted. I am sure Vinateiri nailing all those game winning field goals had something to do with taping right?
     
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    which brings me to my next thought...Vitali Klitschko was BANNED from the olympics in 1996 for testing positive for steroids.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Wonder why anyone would seek to build up the moderate Gomez ?:huh
    Can you think of any reason?:lol::lol::lol:
     
  9. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Look.. I'm not a fan of Gomez..... I don't care if he vanishes from the scene here in late 2009..... BUT! He was a decent boxer with skill and savy, plus, a southpaw.... All I'm saying is, at 200 to 212 pounds, Gomez would prolly be tough or capable of beating a lot of dudes from the past who fought between 185 to 220 pounds..... Gomez is NOT a total ***** who is clueless about combat......

    MR.BILL
     
  10. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    JC Gomez isn't terrible by any means and he was a legit challenger for Vitali but at 35-36 years of age and 230 lbs he wasn't exactly in his prime.

    Lets not forget that during his time as a cruiserweight the limit was 190 lbs, a weight he looked very comfortable at. He eventually put on more than 40 pounds to compete as a heavyweight.
     
  11. Fighting Weight

    Fighting Weight Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So judging by your logic Peter was washed up too when VITLAY beat him? Kind of puts a hole in your ATG comeback nonsense when you consider he beat a washed up fighter and a fat cruiserweight doesn't it :huh
     
  12. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Gomez was indeed past it a tad and soft when he fought Klit, but I think Gomez still has some life left in his career; just not at 230 pounds.... If Gomez trains down to a solid 210 to 212 pounds, he'd be fine and with more leg speed..... The fact that he's southpaw means he'd trouble lotsa orthodox fighters who are just coming up the ladder... However, many managers will stear clear of Gomez......

    Off topic.............. I have "Young-Ali" from 1976........ Even though Ali was 230 pounds at age 34, Ali didn't look like a slob in that fight..... Ali held the weight well..... But, in terms of fighting at 230, he was sluggish and off target to a degree, but, I still scored the snoozer for him over the stinky James Young......

    The worst guys I have ever seen show up to a fight in pathetic shape who were considered world class and championship material were, Eddie M. Muhammad when he was 201 pounds for Renaldo Snipes in 1981, and when comebacking Roberto Duran fought Pat Lawlor at 168 pounds in 1991........ I was trippin' on how lousy they looked........ ALSO! I'll cut him a lot of slack, however, George Foreman did look gross at 267 pounds in 1987 for Steve Zouski out in California......... I freaked there........

    MR.BILL:deal
     
  13. Fighting Weight

    Fighting Weight Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I can assure you right now that yes, he was that bad. Watch the Sinal Sam fight, that was before he fought Tyson and VITLAY and Sam just beat the **** out of him. He did a better job on Williams than VITLAY did, in fact.

    Williams entire career rests on his one win against the shell of Mike Tyson that lost to Kevin McBride not long afterwards. I wonder how much the Klitschko fans would try to build up McBride if he'd got to Tyson before Williams did, that would be amusing :D
     
  14. Fighting Weight

    Fighting Weight Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I always liked Gary Mason, he'd be a match for anyone in the division right now in my opinion. Good power in both fists, OK he wasn't exactly fast but he was a big guy, about 6 foot 3 and 230+lbs, and strong with it. Very good chin too as I recall. Yep, he'd beat both the Klits then :yep
     
  15. Locke

    Locke Active Member Full Member

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    :rofl I bet you praised the "Vanquisher of Tyson" as the next great HW until Vitali made him do the chicken dance in Round 1.