Joe Louis vs. Vitali Klitschko

And from fighting untested journeyman.

 

No one is suggesting that Carnera is superior to Vitali ,just that there are similarities in their styles.
As to Carnera not facing men as big as those Vitali has met.
Carnera fought 11 men who scaled over 230lbs.
Including
258lbs Ray Impelletiere 6 foot 7 1/2in
2803/4lbs Victorio Campolo 6 foot 9 1/2in
247lbs Jose Santa 6 foot 8 1/2in
I am not saying they were top flight but they might hve been as good as someone like Valuev for instance.
Vitali's chin and power are better than Carnera's not so sure about his jab or hand speed .

 

I have had to wait a long time for an active debate on this issue.

The previous policy of those arguing the contrary seems to have been to ignore and hope the question disapeared.

If the people who think that Vitally Klitschko has taken technique to a level beyond the superheavies of the past, will give detailed arguments, then it is better for me and better for their argument.

 

For those of you who really know Primo Carnera, here is an interesting exercise: Look at Vitali Klitschko's entire record, fight by fight, and think about how Primo would probably have done against each of them. I just did it. The only loss I can honestly see there for Primo is Lennox Lewis.

Going forward from there, with Primo replacing Vitali, in today's heavyweight division, the only possible loss I see for Primo is Wladimir Klitschko...and, as Vitali, he would be allowed to duck Wladimir. I just don't honestly see anyone out there right now who would beat Primo, other than possibly Wladimir.

 

Janitor and I have had debates over Primo,I am not a fan ,but he stacks up very favourably with the top ten today imo.

 

Agreed,

To suggest that Vitali Klitschko is anything like these men is ludicrous.

I am not maintaining that Carnera had no boxing ability whatsover. But even in some of his later performances at the world level such as the Sharkey fight that you pointed along with his loss to Baer, he looks very rough around the edges at points. I am by no means trying to imply that Klitschko looks like Muhammad Ali by comparison, but there was a definite factor of sloppiness to Carnera's game. Vitali's defense was definately better especially considering that it was tested against some fairly good technicians like Chris Byrd who he was dominating. A better defense combined with a solid chin and superior punch along with other more polished skills could certainly lead to a different outcome against a common opponent... Of course, I still pick Louis to be the victor..

Fair on all accounts.. Although I do think that he was technically superior, but I concur that the difference was marginal.

I can't disagree, but that doesn't mean that beating Carnera is the blue print for beating Klitschko either.

A lot of folks have criticized Vitali to no end, for a single quit job in 40 pro fights. If that's the way they see it, then that's the way they see it, and I'm not going to try and change their minds. I for one think that he has an incredible heart, work ethic and guts, but again an opinion is only an opinion.

No, absolutely not... I agree.

But on that same note, I don't think that Klitschko is an opponent that would have been taken lightly in Louis's time either.. And frankly, if men like Buddy Baer, Tony Galento or even Tammy Mauriello could get Louis's attention for a brief period, then I think it reasonable to assume that Vitali could as well.

 

Although you're likely to disagree, I think that Chris Byrd and Corrie Sanders could quite possibly have beaten carnera as well. My only hesitation with Sanders, is that he had very poor stamina, so if Carnera could survive early, then he likely wins. Corrie's southpaw stance combined with his power and handspeed would make for a treachurous first few rounds for Carnera though...

 

Fair enough.

 

Well...we certainly can agree that Sanders and Byrd would not have been easy fights for Carnera! I just think Carnera would pull out wins against those two..not easy wins by any stretch of my imagination.

Just to set the record straight, I was never a big fan of Primo Carnera either! The man did have some skills though, was a linear champion, never deliberately ducked anyone in his era (to my knowledge), had a decent heavyweight chin and punch, had the heart of a lion, and I just think he is sold short with a hand sweep by many on here.

 

All true.

Although we've all heard the allegations of things like " fixed fights " when it comes to discussing Carnera, but who knows if any of it is true. Anytime someone starts a discussion on the issue, it raises heated debate to no end.

 

Just to clarify, I said Louis struggled with boxers with good jabs, and that's who the above men are. I also believe Vitali is a very good boxer with a good jab. There is your similarity. Indeed no man has won more than two clean rounds from him! Louis lost more rounds to Walcott in both fights than Vitali did in his entire ring career.

Carnera lacked Vitali's accuracy, defense, punch out put, power, chin and ring generalship.

Vitali has the ability to throw multiple types of punches from various angles. far better than Carnera, who at times looked a tad unsure of himself in the ring.

I agree Carnera had heart. He also had a suspect chin, and lost way too many rounds vs no greats to be considered a good boxer.

 

Well put.

 

I feel many people are underrating Vitali in this matchup. Vitali has at least a 5 inch height and 4 inch reach advantage. Klitschko is very solid at controlling distance. Lets not forget Vitali has quite a good chin, so anybody predicting 1st round KOs for Louis need a reality check. People who see this playing out like Louis- Carnera are somewhat off. Carnera was a plainfully slow oaf. Klitschko aint no 'ambling alp.'

 

Even John Ruiz would beat the living sh*te out of Carnera.