Joe Louis vs. Vitali Klitschko

From a legacy standpoint? Probably none. But, legacies and head to head abilities are two totally different animals. I could very conceivably see Corrie Sanders, Chris Byrd, Herbie Hide and perhaps even a fitter version of Sam Peter beating many of Carnera's opponents or even Carnera himself.

You're likely to disagree, but again I remind you that I am not basing this on things like who beat more hall of famers, ring rated opponents, etc.etc.. Its not about just legacy.

 

Horse****.

A used up Loghran he outweighed by a ton, a used up Sharkey (was this fight even on the up and up?), a used up never very good Basque...

I would take anyone in todays top 20 HW's over this bunch in this shape.

And I love the credence given to fighter's accomplishments when said fighter is known to have had multiple fixed fights and alleged to have had many. Bravo, you stellar ESB scholars for your objective, unbiased work!

 

Sigh,


"During the second round Vitali felt a sudden pain in his left shoulder, which worsened in the course of round 3. Vitali was forced to end the fight in the 10th, having boxed with practically one arm in the six previous rounds, because the pain in the left shoulder-joint had become unbearable. "


Vitali was fighting hurt most of the fight and it is very evident, especially in the highlights you selected. The Larry Donald fight would be a more valid comparision.

 

It's closer than one would think though with Carnera widely being considered a joke and a fraud and Vitali an unbeatable destroyer.

Carnera's best wins:

Jack Sharkey
Tommy Loughran
George Godfrey
Paulino Uzcudun
Ernie Schaaf
Young Stribling
Jim Maloney
Jack Gross
Art Lasky
[url]Walter Neusel[/url]
King Levinsky
Bearcat Wright
[url]Isidoro Gastanaga[/url]
Bud Gorman
[url]Ray Impelletiere[/url]
Ford Smith
Neil Clisby
Pierre Charles
etc.

Admittedly there's controversy about some of those wins and those could be left out. One should not overlook Carnera's record he beat a lot of notable fighters of the era, some of whom I've left out. Not all of them were top 10 but they were solid fighters who could occasionally upset a name fighter here and there.

Vitali's best wins:

Corrie Sanders
Sam Peter
Chris Arreola
Herbie Hide
JC Gomez
Kirk Johnson
Larry Donald
Danny Williams
Orlin Norris
Timo Hoffman
Ed Mahone
Obed Sullivan
Ross Puritty
Dicky Ryan

You could argue that a lot of the fighters Vitali fought were used up as well. He couldn't beat an used up Lewis.

About Carnera's fixed fights, many of his early bouts may have been, because he fought opposition that was so overmatched they never stood a chance in the first place but is that any different from what today's fighters do?

Look at this fight for example:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecNNmEGQ9a4[/ame]

I've seen a lot of Carnera's fights and none of them look fixed.

 

I brought the fight up because someone said Vitali had a high skill level because he was able to outbox Byrd (in losing). I wasn't impressed. Vitali didn't look like the fastest and smoothest heavyweight out there in the first round against Hide either.

I did say that Vitali improved after the fight. The Donald fight shows this.

 

Though good with both hands, Vitali lives off his left to control the fight. To be up on the cards in such a situation against a southpaw of Byrd's ability is certianly impressive, even if it wasn't the prettiest boxing of his career.

 

Vitali injured his left arm. He seemed to be using it to pretty decent effect there.

Wladimir pretty much dominated Byrd by firing nothing but accurate right hands.

EDIT: At first I thought you meant Vitali dominated the fight with the use of his injured left hand only. My mistake.

 

Are we now contending that Carnera did not have numerous fixed fights in order to protect his record?

 

Same question to you as to Seamus.

If Jack Sharkey was matched with Sam Peter or Corrie Sanders tomorrow who would you install as favourite and by how much?

 

The onus is on those making the alegation to prove it.

A few of his early fights were likley fixed but which of his legacy fights were fixed?

 

Tell me about all the fixed fights he had.

 

I would take both over Sharkey, especially a guy as mercurial as he was.

 

That would depend greatly on what he had accomplished thus far, in the modern era and against modern heavyweights. Frankly, I don't think that its unreasonable to think that a hide, Sanders or a Peter could bested him, or a Chris Byrd to have outboxed him. Again, this is all opinion based, but to answer your question, I would make those men favorites to beat him.. Haven't decided on the odds.

 

And they wernt?