Joe Louis vs. Vitali Klitschko

Have you ever seen Sanders vs. Cooper? Sanders was amazing in that fight. Cooper had Holyfield in some trouble. Czyz did not last long vs Sanders. He went a few rounds with Holyfield. I also think Wlad is better than anyone Joe Louis beat, and of course Sanders owns that win.

 

Olive McCall?

 

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Modern man a wimp says anthropologist

Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:24am EDT

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By John Mehaffey
LONDON (Reuters) - Many prehistoric Australian aboriginals could have outrun world 100 and 200 meters record holder Usain Bolt in modern conditions.
Some Tutsi men in Rwanda exceeded the current world high jump record of 2.45 meters during initiation ceremonies in which they had to jump at least their own height to progress to manhood.
Any Neanderthal woman could have beaten former bodybuilder and current California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger in an arm wrestle.
These and other eye-catching claims are detailed in a book by Australian anthropologist Peter McAllister entitled "Manthropology" and provocatively sub-titled "The Science of the Inadequate Modern Male."
McAllister sets out his stall in the opening sentence of the prologue.
"If you're reading this then you -- or the male you have bought it for -- are the worst man in history.
"No ifs, no buts -- the worst man, period...As a class we are in fact the sorriest cohort of masculine Homo sapiens to ever walk the planet."
Delving into a wide range of source material McAllister finds evidence he believes proves that modern man is inferior to his predecessors in, among other fields, the basic Olympic athletics disciplines of running and jumping.
His conclusions about the speed of Australian aboriginals 20,000 years ago are based on a set of footprints, preserved in a fossilized claypan lake bed, of six men chasing prey.
FLEET-FOOTED ABORIGINALS
An analysis of the footsteps of one of the men, dubbed T8, shows he reached speeds of 37 kph on a soft, muddy lake edge. Bolt, by comparison, reached a top speed of 42 kph during his then world 100 meters record of 9.69 seconds at last year's Beijing Olympics.
In an interview in the English university town of Cambridge where he was temporarily resident, McAllister said that, with modern training, spiked shoes and rubberized tracks, aboriginal hunters might have reached speeds of 45 kph.
"We can assume they are running close to their maximum if they are chasing an animal," he said.
"But if they can do that speed of 37 kph on very soft ground I suspect there is a strong chance they would have outdone Usain Bolt if they had all the advantages that he does.
"We can tell that T8 is accelerating toward the end of his tracks."
McAllister said it was probable that any number of T8's contemporaries could have run as fast.
"We have to remember too how incredibly rare these fossilizations are," he said. "What are the odds that you would get the fastest runner in Australia at that particular time in that particular place in such a way that was going to be preserved?"
Turning to the high jump, McAllister said photographs taken by a German anthropologist showed young men jumping heights of up to 2.52 meters in the early years of last century.
STARK DECLINE
"It was an initiation ritual, everybody had to do it. They had to be able to jump their own height to progress to manhood," he said.
"It was something they did all the time and they lived very active lives from a very early age. They developed very phenomenal abilities in jumping. They were jumping from boyhood onwards to prove themselves."
McAllister said a Neanderthal woman had 10 percent more muscle bulk than modern European man. Trained to capacity she would have reached 90 percent of Schwarzenegger's bulk at his peak in the 1970s.
"But because of the quirk of her physiology, with a much shorter lower arm, she would slam him to the table without a problem," he said.
Manthropology abounds with other examples:
* Roman legions completed more than one-and-a-half marathons a day carrying more than half their body weight in equipment.
* Athens employed 30,000 rowers who could all exceed the achievements of modern oarsmen.
* Australian aboriginals threw a hardwood spear 110 meters or more (the current world javelin record is 98.48).
McAllister said it was difficult to equate the ancient spear with the modern javelin but added: "Given other evidence of Aboriginal man's superb athleticism you'd have to wonder whether they couldn't have taken out every modern javelin event they entered."
Why the decline?
"We are so inactive these days and have been since the industrial revolution really kicked into gear," McAllister replied. "These people were much more robust than we were.
"We don't see that because we convert to what things were like about 30 years ago. There's been such a stark improvement in times, technique has improved out of sight, times and heights have all improved vastly since then but if you go back further it's a different story.
"At the start of the industrial revolution there are statistics about how much harder people worked then.
"The human body is very plastic and it responds to stress. We have lost 40 percent of the shafts of our long bones because we have much less of a muscular load placed upon them these days.
"We are simply not exposed to the same loads or challenges that people were in the ancient past and even in the recent past so our bodies haven't developed. Even the level of training that we do, our elite athletes, doesn't come close to replicating that.
"We wouldn't want to go back to the brutality of those days but there are some things we would do well to profit from."

 

Haven't seen the Cooper fight ,but the fact remains Cooper was known for substance abuse, turned up a career high 247lbs 27lbs more , than he scaled for Holyfield,which was two years earlier.

Czyz was 36 years old had not fought in two years, and scaled a career high 220lbs,again 40lbs over his prime weight
.If these are signature wins for Sanders his resume is pretty pitiful,he has one upset win over a rather chinny Wlad,one swallow does not a summer make.
Wlad better than Walcott? Schmeling?

 

Anyone who writes off Joe Louis as some blown up, glorfied figure from the past who would be exposed by modern athletes is a complete fool. To say a fat, lazy, unmotivated fringe contender like Corrie Sanders beats him is hilarious.

You would think one man proved how pathetic this argument is, namely the great Evander Holyfield, but it still goes on. Holyfield was a naturally smaller man than Louis. Maybe a half inch taller and at least 15 pounds lighter. Much smaller in the legs. Louis fighting in Holyfield's time would eaily be a ripped 218 or so.

You would also think that James Toney exposed how overated these big men are and how a talented smaller man could make them look weak. Again the nonsense continues.

I am strongly convinced the Louis critics simply focus on certain clips from a few fights and gage him by it, most likely the Walcott fights and possibly Conn 1. Anyone who studies Louis' career and watches the young Louis with blazing speed and exceptional two handed power knows what an exceptional fighter he was.

I say he destroys Lewis and both Klit brothers. Too fast and too hard hitting but his biggest problem would be a prime Tyson whose blazing start's exceptional speed and power make for a very tough match up.

 

He was less amazing here:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ6_BPrWdN4[/ame]

 

Have you ever seen Buddy Baer and Joe Louis fight? Louis is stopped twice in his 66-3 career, both times by power-punching world heavyweight champions and the second being his last fight, way past his prime. If you think he had a fragile chin, you just aren't very bright. No offense.atsch

 

This thread is STILL going.

Neither side will budge :rofl One side has more evidence than the other side. Don't forget I went for Vitali! But..............the evidence for Vitali is not as conclusive as that for Louis.

I guess we will see soon as Vitali is going to take on someone that is going to prove his greatness.................Kevin Johnson :deal

 

You might have some valid points about Sanders but the point has to be made that he is the type of contender that Louis, or Carnera or any other fighter from that era would get zero credit for beating on this forum because of the way that history obscures that type of fighter.

Imagine if I tried to strengthen the case for Joe Louis by citing a win against a contender who had beaten an inexperienced Primo Carnera when he was on a bit of a loosing streak, and had a win over a contender who was best known for giving Max Baer a close fight in a loosing effort.

I would be hearing the words bum, journeyman, and gartekeeper depending on the maturity of the respondants.

And for the record I don't think that the version of Wlad that Sanders beat was close to being better than anybody Louis beat. He had lost to Ross Purity and would go on to loose to Lamon Brewster. A lot of people wrote him off after the Brewster fight.

 

They were 40lbs overweight.

 

The irresistible force has met the immovable object.

 

Someone asked for Sander's important wins. Having covered the beat during his "rise", I thought I would offer them.

And frankly, remove the names, I they reminiscent of description of Louis title opponents.

 

That was admitedly an ugly performance. Nate Tubbs was nothing special and a 23-0 Sanders got sparked early. I will say however that in a career spanning some 45 fights, to only get beat on a handful of occasions wasn't that bad. The Tubbs loss was devastating, but his future losses came against the same version of Hasim Rahman who beat Lewis, a prime Vitali Klitschko and a journeyman when he was 42 years old and on the comeback trail. Sanders can't claim to having beaten a stellar list of opponents, but I think he often gets overly criticized for having a padded record. He has a lot of impressive performances against a number of upper tier journeyman along with the occasional fringe guy here and there. Also, his two round destruction of a prime Wlad when Corrie was at the age of 37 is a masterpeice.