Joe Louis vs. Vitali Klitschko

So more men knocked Louis down, and Wlad has been down 1 more time total. On paper it looks like the chins are even here. Is this what the Louis fans are trying to say?

This is Vitali we are talking about here.

Vitali has never been knocked down. Not by Lewis, Sanders, Hide, or Peter...and all four were good punchers.

 

We'll let that be your little secret.

 

Now let's examine Louis a bit more ....

Overconfident and undertrained, he got beaten by Schmeling, absorbing dozens of Max's best , flush right hands along the Way. In Schmeling's autobioghraphy he raved about what a great punch Louis took.

Braddock had a pretty dynamite right hand, he caught Louis flush , early, for a flash knockdown and Louis was right back on him.

Forget what he looked like, Galento was a huge banger, pumped up for the fight of his life. He rocked Louis in the first which Joe took well. He dropped Louis in the third. Joe got up fast, recolvered quickly and destroyed him.

Buddy Baer, another huge puncher, knocked him through the ropes. Again Louis immediately recovered and went on to win the fight, big.

Walcott could knock down a horse. He dropped Rocky and flattened Charles. He dropped the post war Louis several times in their bouts but all were knockdowns of the flash variety. Louis always got up, never groggy and continued his assult.

Needless to say Rocky was a huge puncher and he did a number on a washed up , 37 year old Louis, similiar to what Tyson did to Holmes ...

The key difference between Louis and Wlad are very obvious ... Louis got up to win, excluding Schmeling who he crushed in a rematch and Marciano since he retired. He was rarely hurt to the degree Wlad was against Purity, Sanders , Brewster and even Peter, a fight wher Wlad managed to hang on and squeeze out a win ...

One man had exceptional recooperative powers and the other a weak chin, period.

 

I have been spending a little bit of time here and there learning about Carnera and his style. I would like to study more about him, but it will take longer since I don't have as much interest in him as I do with the more popular fighters, particularly my favorite ones. So far I've looked at the second Sharkey fight and the Louis fight. From what I've seen he actually did look pretty good. I can see why you would compare him to Vitaly. Personally, due to other reasons different from what I've seen on the actual footage, I don't believe that Louis would have floored Vitaly with the same kind of punches he dropped Carnera with.

 

Maybe somebody can tell me the probability of Vitali walking though the past Heavy Weight Greats with his hands down and chin baiting opponents like he did against Chris Arreola?
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlwX2BHkMcA[/ame]

Joe Louis .... Straight Right hand on a counter ( He took a Baer power shot and fired right back with a wicked right to the head )
Rocky Marciano .. Overhand Right off a clinch
George Foreman .. Straight Right off the jab
Joe Frazier ... Left hook taking his head off
Lennox Lewis ... Straight Right hand (beginning of Round 3)
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDot0rbYSfo[/ame]

I think V.Klitshko is a great fighter , but you have to say would have been caught and knocked out with his hands so low in other great eras of boxing.

 

I think we agree here. Vitally is more durable than Carnera and he probably hits harder as well.

However some people who put forward the "bigger is better" argument would have us believe that every heavyweight over 220 lbs who fought before 1960 is a skilless oaf. This is total BS and frankly we should probably have challenged it a lot sooner.

 

:good:good:good:good

 

Primo Carnera: Baer X11

Vitali Klitschko: 0

 

Mrs. Klitschko ...

 

Not you are going to have a consistant rule for what constitutes a knockdown.

If you were to recognise all 11 of the knockdowns in the Max Baer fight then Klitschko was down against Lewis and possibly Sanders.

 

Nah, actually I'm gonna write a book about that. :smoke

 

There persists here the denial that, no matter how distasteful to some, there exists a giant disparity in athletic quality between an era that allows Johnny Paycheck, Al McCoy, Bob Pastor, Jack Roper, Red Burman or Tami Mauriello fight for the HEAVYWEIGHT champion and one in which real heavyweights do this bidding.

 

uhave acused a lot of people in this thread of being delusional but if you are a Klitschko suporter criticising Louis's opposition the delusional dosn't even cover it.

You have listed some of Louis's second and third teir opponents here but you are redyuced to citing people like Danny Willians to make up Vitally Klitschko's first teir. Se how this looks?

If I could see you all the names that you have listed to add to Vitally Klitschko's resume it would practiacaly doubl;e his career achievments and still leave him with a rather shabby record compared to Louis.

I guess you will respond by suggesting that Vitally's opposition was better because he was beating 220 pound bums or fringe contenders rather than 195 lb former champions.

 

You want to tell me Foreman always carried his hands high? And then, Frazier took his head off with a left hook, right?

What if someone else who had a tendency to carry his hands low, say, Ali, fought these guys? Surely he couldn't go more than a few rounds with them exposing his flaws?


VK's unorthodox style isn't pretty nor textbook stuff, but it's effective as hell because of his rare combination of height, reflexes, speed and athletic ability. Plus, the fact that he's extremely heavy handed and an excellent counter puncher doesn't make opponents to happy about coming in.

 

Ok.

Or Louis coming off his best filmed win over bear ran into a good boxer in Schmeling, got tagged because of a poor defense and slow feet ( A problem that reoccurs thought his career ) and lacked the smarts or toughness to overcome Schmleing's skills.

Braddock had a dynamite right hand? I disagree. And Braddock was coming off a 2 year layoff to take this fight. The fact that he floored Louis and won another round before gassing out does not make Louis look good.

I agree Galento can hit. My issue here is if a guy with journeyman skills can land and floor Louis, then what would a guy with skills and power do?

See the above comment.

Walcott wasn't going for the KO . He out boxed Louis in both fights, only to be robed once, and Ko'd the 2nd time when he got too cute.

This is a Vitali and Louis thread. We know Wlad has a suspect chin. The best skilled punchers Louis fought in Schmeling and Marciano knocked him out. I think Sanders, Brewster and Peter hit as hard or harder than Schemling did, and unlike Galento and Bear, they have some other skills and talents to worry about in the ring.



A key point in this thread the Louis admires are not acknowledging or addressing is the fact that he had big time trouble vs quality boxers, and a dentable chin vs punchers. Vitali is both a skilled boxer and a puncher.