Joe Louis WAS THE BEST PFP FIGHTER OF ALL TIME

No.

 

Resume should be the most important factor in rating a fighter.

Dominance is also great, but by the end, Wladimir Klitschko may have more years at the top than Joe did(Look at heavyweight today), and other heavyweights have held claim for exceedingly long periods.

Ali beat better fighters than any other man at heavyweight did. To not rank him #1, I think, is incorrect. He also had a period of defined dominance, defended his belt quite often, and cleaned out TWO era's worth of great heavyweights.

Muhammad just beat better guys, and in his prime, was looking just as invincible as Louis did, just in a different way. They are the clear #1 and #2, but I think the order they should go in is also clear. Maybe its because I've actually boxed at a high level, but who you beat is everything.

 

A very compelling post, this.

 

Louis has victories over:

Everett, Sykes, Toles, Barry, Pareda, Massare, McCoy, Roper, Ramage (2-0-0), Perroni, Brown (2-0-0), Reztlaff, Carnera, Levinski, Baer, Uzcudun, Schmelling (1-1-0), Sharkey, Attore, Pastor (2-0-0), Braddock, Farr, Mann, Galento, Paycheck, Godoy (2-0-0), Burman, Dorazio, Simon (2-0-0), Musto, Baer (2-0-0), Conn (2-0-0), Nova, Mauriello, Walcott (2-0-0), Brion (2-0-0), Beshore, Agoramante (2-0-0), Savold, Bivins

Elmer Ray aside he pretty much fought everyon out there in his main division.

Armstrong ran from murderers row as WW champ.

 

Louis does have the longest title reign of any champion in any weight class.

We have to factor in the matter that that fighters in the lower weight classes decline more quickly.

It is probably no coincidence that the longest title reign belongs to a heavyweight.

 

He didn't fight Cocoa Kid during those months that Cocoa Kid was #1, but it's tough to hold it against him too much. Hell, I find it tough to hold Robinson's avoiding 3 of those guys considering who he did fight, how long he fought, how many times he fought.

 

I'm away from my computer at present (just started watching some 24). Did armstrong ever fight the next top ranked ww after defeating ross?

He beat ross and spent 3 years as champ of the weightclass, I can't recall him ever beating the top ranked contender from the top of my head.

 

No i'm listing every fight of louis's which was worthwhile imo. If he has victories that can compare with armstrong's they'll be in that pile.

For the record though, baer, schmelling, conn, walcott might not necessarily be as highly regarded p4p as armstrong's top end but they were the very best the division had to offer and spanned a timescale of ten years or so.

I think louis had a better skillset than hank did.

Legacy wise i'm unsure what's better; 9 years of dominance or cutting a swathe from feather to ww.

I actually think last time I did a list these two were right next to each other in it. Numbers 5 and 6 I believe.

 

My list of all Joe Louis' opposition that I find comparable to the caliber of opposition that the best P4P fighters today fight.

Next to the fighter is the rank that The Ring magazine assigned to the fighter at the end of the calendar year going into the year Louis faced them. It is however possible they rose or dropped before Louis fought them.

Ramage- #10
Ramage II- #10
Brown- #8
Carnera- #2
Levinskey- #5
M. Baer- Champion (obviously lost before he fought Louis)
Uzcudun
Retzlaff- #4
Sharkey
Ettore- #9
Pastor
Braddock- Champion
Farr
Mann- #3
Schmeling II- #1
Lewis- then LHW Champion
Galento- #3
Pastor II- #4
Godoy
Paycheck- #6
Godoy II
Burman- #3
Simon- #4
B. Baer- #6
Conn- then LHW Champion
Nova
B. Baer II- #7
Simon II- #5
Conn II- #1
Mauriello- #2
Walcott- #3
Walcott II- #1
Savold- #2
Bivins

Simply tremendous. Mind boggling.

This resume is only rivaled by very few fighters of all time, let alone eclipsed.

I challenge anyone who thinks Pacquiao, Mayweather, Hopkins, or Jones are anywhere close to the same plateau of Joe Louis. Or close to the plateau beneath him, even.

I challenge anyone who thinks Louis is either A) overrated, B) his competition was weak, C) who thinks Louis is not the best or 2nd best HW of all time, or D) thinks Louis is not a top 10 ATG to provide a response as to why. Please, I've heard people claim this before, time to step up to the plate.



Source:
http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings:_Heavyweight--

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine's_Annual_Ratings:_Heavyweight--1940s

 

Look at my list and respond.

Yes, I do.

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Besides, most people who think Louis is top 5 P4P also have Armstrong there, so not sure the debate is that big of a deal.

 

There aren't many out there that are alive and used to follow boxing, who saw Joe Louis fight.

Certainly none post on this site. None write for boxing magazines now. All of those people have fond memories of Ali and the glorified 70's. Eras are different. It is up to each of us to determine how we value them.

You are incorrect if you think the fighters of the 70's are automatically better than those of the 30's/40's. Why? Because the fights were broadcast across the world so everyone could see them? Because there was more media to spread and discuss the sport and those fighters? Because TV was in color and the tape we watch is in color so it gives the illusion that they're better and in better shape than those prior? Because those in authoritative boxing positions saw Ali/Foreman/Frazier/Norton/Quarry/etc. when they were kids, young adults, or just starting on the job?

Louis didn't have the same training techniques as Ali. Rather than dropping Louis in a time machine to be born at Ali's DOB into Ali's era, try dropping Ali in a time machine to be born at Louis' DOB into Louis' era. Well, politically speaking and considering the times, there are many reasons why I could tell you that likely Ali would have been nothing in that era, but even taking all those reasons aside...

 

Mc, Repent and ye shall be saved !!!.

 

I agree with Burt, it was the way he disposed of talented, awkward big small and tough opponents, if he had a fault it was his feet but his balance was impeccable, and his hands and timing grease lightning, sure, he had tough fights but so did Ali which posters have compared his greatness to, we all know Ali benefitted from a number of dubios decisions, anyway if Joe is not the greatest PFP, he would go mighty close.

 

Yes Steve,The WAY Louis disposed of his victims when at his peak was breathtaking. And as you post , his hand's were like "greased lightning".
I must differ with you however,by saying that the young Louis of the Max Baer era ,moved very well on his feet,cutting the ring off from his opponents. He at that time had plenty of bounce in him for a 197 pound heavyweight. And combined with unmatched punching leverage, unleashing pinpoint salvos of two-fisted combinations would IMO catch up and ko any version of Clay/Ali at his best.
Eddie Futch, a great trainer who was a sparring partner for Louis in Detroit
who knew a helluva lot more than most anyone, seeing Ali at his best, Always chose Joe Louis over Ali, and I concur. Louis as always said it best
when he used the appropriate phrase, " he can run, but he can't hide ".
P.S. Ali did get the benefit of several close bouts, because of his showmanship,and habit of pressing his weight on his opponents head
forcing their head down...He was the "darling" of his time, but Louis was simply the "slayer" of his time...Cheers...