Joe Louis WAS THE BEST PFP FIGHTER OF ALL TIME

not a big foreman fan so dont have answer, watched zaire twice this week and that is my view on it in that fight.

not that fight but in general through his career i thought it was generally accepted, especially in exile, when he must have known he would fight again.

yes but is same for both men

 

Well not many questions answered there at all.

So you base your views per Foreman cutting off the ring specifically on the Zaire fight. Well that was the fight Ali said Foreman was too big and cut the ring off too well for him (allied to the heat) to dance and move too long. So Ali took to rope a dope very early. Not sure how much one could gleam on Foreman cutting off the ring after Ali made the ropes his home for the night.

The oppressive heat is the same for both? Would it affect a stalker more than someone dancing around the said stalker who cuts off the ring well?

Ok, so you don't think Ali slacked in training for the Foreman fight now?

I am at a loss that Ali could be criticised for one of the greatest wins in history. The guy was about a 7-1 underdog and people were freely calling Foreman the most damaging heavyweight in history. Many experts considered him unbeatable. Ali was considered well past it and ko'd the guy. He also didn't take near the amount of punishment that has become myth.

 

the sentence i wrote was 'getting banned and slacking at training' if that sentence means he slacked while in training for zaire then it means he was banned for zaire.

after i got more interested in heavyweights i asked people here about his physical attributes before and after the ban and was told he didn't keep up his training and never fully recovered his speed, and that he wasn't the best trainer anyway. if i got this wrong then i stand corrected

 

and the discussion was louis v ali. no way i am calling him ****, just looking for the small differences that separate the two

 

Very different styles aren't they. Louis far more powerful, Ali probably just edging it on speed, Louis more compact precise punches, Ali a far better chin and triple or more of the footspeed etc etc.

 

definatley, been thinking about this for a couple of days now, whilst ali's toughness is just amazing i cant get past how technically good a puncher louis was for a big guy, especially later in fights when you would expect anyone to look cruder.
so i still pick louis. especially across the careers.

 

I favour Ali. Here is what Emanuel Steward had to say on the matchup just to keep you thinking.

 

i think all punchers (and pure boxers even) "have problems with movers".
no one wants to fight a guy that's a pain in the ass to hit.
and punchers tend to look relatively bad when they have to grind out a decision against a guy who's tough to nail with a clean punch

Louis would have trouble with Ali's movement.
Ali would have trouble with Louis's jab and punch variety
as good as Ali looked in 1966, if you watch his fights with Chuvalo and Cooper there's plenty of openings there for Louis to exploit. and when Louis connects it's a different ballgame entirely

more than anything, Louis and Ali would be a very tactical match. a chess match. such great boxers, real thinkers in there

 

Y

 

Prime for Prime I see Ali taking Louis, probably a late stoppage. Larry is a tougher idea...Joe could be very machine-like, and Larry tended to figure out fighters like that as the rounds progressed. I can see Joe dropping Larry, but most of us here know how Larry handled knockdowns in his prime...

 

Ali and Louis are close in terms of achievement. It depends on how you compare their biggest wins. For many, and for me, Ali's 5 wins over fighters most have in or around their top 10 make the difference between them.

 

I think Louis would finish him tbh. Dealing with kd's and being badly hurt against a Snipes, Weaver, Shavers or Witherspoon is night and day different to dealing with it against Louis, one of the greatest finishers. It would be a great fight, contrasting styles and tactics.

 

I think not.

 

Ali would be all wrong for Louis and stop him in 8-10 rds prime vs prime. Hand speed Ali was faster however Louis was no slouch and carried devastating power in short compact punches. If Ali stood and just went to war with Louis more than likely he would lose.
But Ali's foot speed and reflexes were miles better, and Ali had a far superior chin when he got nailed.
Look, Conn at 174 lbs boxed circles around Louis, buckled Louis , but got stupid and got caught. Schmeling crossed Louis's jab with a right cross, Louis did not have or his corner didn't have the ability to adjust to what Schmeling was doing Louis got knocked out. Both of these fights were prime Louis .
Now were expected to except Ali, who was bigger and faster of hand and feet than Conn, Ali who probably hit harder than Schmeling and the multiple other merly capable, but by no means special fighters that put Louis on his ass. Were expected to accept Louis's foot speed would magically become quick enough to keep up with prime Ali when he NEVER demonstrated he could at any point of his career. But on the other hand, some of those viscous punchers in history(Some like Foreman , Liston, Lyle, Shavers, Frazier, and William's may have hit harder than Louis 1 punch for 1 punch )couldn't stop prime/past prime Ali. Some of the fastest fighters in history like Patterson , Mathis and Ellis, noted for their speed was taken apart by prime Ali

Each of the last 3 fighters had the foot speed to prolong a fight with J Louis. Look I love Louis, and I've written many times on this and other sites his combination of technique, speed, and power is the absolute best ever seen in heavyweight history. And based on how fighters are trained today, is the best will ever see.
But boxing is so much more than offensive greatness. Ali , and a few other heavyweights had the style, size and skills to take Louis apart. Let's not get so caught up in nostalgia, and hero worship to not be able to see this ... And Louis was no were near the best boxer to have ever lived pfp . I can think of at the least 50 I would choose over Louis Pfp. And that's without thinking hard.