Joe Louis's Opposition (old story, I know)

I agree and i think that, ironically, Ali's Vietnam induced layoff made him end up ranked higher on ATG lists because it gave Frazier & Foreman a chance to establish themselfes so Ali could beat them, even if he lost the first time to Frazier.

 

There is a lot to ponder here. My first thoughts are Louis opposition as a whole is average by championship standards. The best fighters Louis meet in the Ring were Schmeling, Walcott, Charles, and Marciano, and each one of these men defeated Louis except for Walcott who was robbed of a decision in Madison Square Garden. Louis managers of course had a speical contract with Madison Square Garden. While age had a lot to do with Louis' defeats to Charles and Marciano, the point here was looking at the best fighters Louis meet.

The next best group of fighters Louis fought was B Baer, Godoy, Farr, and Conn. Each fighter had there share of moments vs Louis. Baer floored him, Godoy might have won the first fight via decision, Farr vs Louis was rather close, and if the Conn fight was 12 rounds, the Pittsburgh kid would have been a heavyweight champion at 168 pounds.

We don't know how Louis would have done vs Liston, Ali, Holmes or Tyson, but in my opinion Liston, Ali, Holmes, and Tyson would not struggle to defeat Baer, Godoy, Farr, and Conn. I beleive Liston, Ali, Holmes or Tyson were far better than Schmeling, Baer, Walcott, Braddock, and Carnera. So I would say Louis was well suited to fight in the time line he did.

The early 1930's were the graveyard years of heavyweight boxing. Nat Fleischer wrote that heavyweight boxing was on life support when Carnera was champion.

If Schmeling, Baer, Walcott, Braddock, or Carnera made their careers before or after Louis's prime years, I doubt they would be viewed as special fighters simply because they were not consistent enough in the ring. I can't see Schmeling, Baer, Walcott, Braddock, or Carnera beating the better champions before or after them. While an upset is possible, their ring records in a weak 1930's / 1940's heavyweight division was too inconstant to suggest they would be great in other era's.

 

Louis made 7 title defenses in 1941. Three were against outstanding
contenders, Conn, Nova, and Baer. Why is it so terrible then that he
defended against Musto and Dorazio, and why is Dorazio so bad. He
had been rated in the top ten and would be in the future. According to
Boxrec, he came into the Louis fight at 50-9-1, good for that era and
not awful for today. His career record was 73-23-2, and he defeated
six men who were at one time or another top five heavyweigths (Harry
Bobo, Johnny Flynn, Buddy Walker, Joe Baksi, Lem Franklin, and Gunnar
Barlund). His record certainly stands up to Brian London (37-20-1),
who got two shots at the title, David Bey (18-11-1), Chuck Wepner
(35-14-2), not to mention Manuel Ramos (25-29-3), let alone someone
like Terry Daniels.

 

These are some top heavys' records for the 1930 to 1955 era:
1. 56-10-4 (40) 2. 71-13-0 (53) 3. 51-26-6 (26)
4. 38-14-3 (13) 5. 81-30-13(24) 6. 53-7-5 (17)
7. 68-3-0 (54) 8. 64-12-1 (15) 9. 50-7-0 (45)
10. 49-9-5 (31) 11. 82-13-1 (60) 12. 51-18-2 (32)
13. 90-25-1 (51) 14. 49-0-0 (43) 15. 93-40-3 (65)
16. 185-23-11 (131) 17. 90-14-0 (72) 18. 87-13-1 (70)

Comment--If I asked you to chose the outstanding fighters out of these,
I think most would pick #14 and #7 who clearly have the outstanding
records.

These are some top heavys' records for the early 1980's to today:
1. 69-6-0 (44) 2. 42-8-2 (27) 3. 41-2-1 (32) 4. 76-5-0 (68)
5. 70-6-3 (43) 6. 42-1-0 (33) 7. 48-3-0 (43) 8. 33-6-1 (21)
9. 41-18-1 (28) 10. 53-6-2 (33) 11. 35-2-0 (34) 12. 34-3-2 (27)
13. 42-1-0 (35) 14. 55-13-1 (38) 15. 49-4-1 (38) 16. 42-6-2 (33)
17. 40-5-0 (38) 18. 41-7-1 (28) 19. 51-8-0 (36) 20. 40-3-1 (21)
21. 42-3-0 (31) 22. 64-2-0 (43) 23. 50-6-0 (44) 24. 47-3-1 (42)

Comment-If you couldn't guess whose records are whose, could you
figure out who the best fighters are? #13 and #22 have among the
best records. I wonder if anyone on this forum would consider them
among the top ten heavyweights of their era.

I did not try to stack the results. These are the records of highly
rated fighters taken off Boxrec and shuffled about.

*The goofy smiling guy is an 8.

 

Can you give us the names behind the numbers. With or without a goofy smile is fine by me.