Joey Maxim at heavyweight

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Dec 15, 2013.


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  1. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    -There was no SMW division then, Marshell was the #1 LHW when he beat Maxim. Maxim was still on the way up and Marshell was one of the greatest to lace them up and at the peak of his powers, so I really don't see this as that big of an embarressment. A 187 lb guy who normally boxed around 174-180 could lose to worse fighters than Marshell.

    - Marshell demonstrated the punching ability to consistently hurt and nearly KO one of the more durable HW/LHW fighters of all time in Maxim. He dominated and KOed a youthful Charles who may or may not have been injured, and also decked Bivins and Moore on multiple occassions. They came into those fights lighter than Maxim did on that particular night but boxed around the same range.

    -The only other alternative is something was wrong with Maxim that night, but I haven't found anything. I'm intersted in why he came in so heavy.
     
    The Mongoose, Dec 17, 2013
    The Mongoose, Dec 17, 2013
    #46
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think you understand the point I was making.

    If you feel differently, i don't care to argue it with you, but for me, as i've said, a heavyweight being beaten by a supermiddleweight is a very bad result for that heavyweight. I don't really see much counter-argument tbh.
     
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    #47
  3. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    -I do, your playing with words as you are not calling Maxim a Cruiser. And really its 20 lbs and roughly 2.5 inches in height. Greater or comparable fighters to Maxim have gave up similar size or more in losses to outstanding smaller men.

    -That's fine.

    -Certainly not a positive, but it should be noted said LHW ranks with Ezzard Charles and Sugar Ray Robinson as one of the best fighters he stepped in the ring with. That shouldn't be discounted.
     
    The Mongoose, Dec 18, 2013
    The Mongoose, Dec 18, 2013
    #48
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    A crusierweight shouldn't lose to a super-middleweight either.

    "A fighter that I rank at heavyweight" - if it pleases you - shouldn't lose to a fighter that mixed it with Sugar Ray Robinson @ MW. That is damaging to that fighter's legacy.

    You may be right to say he has other wins as damaging, i'm not sure, but I think you are wrong to underplay it, with wordplay or otherwise.
     
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    #49
  5. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    -But it happens. Outstanding small men have overcome larger discrepancies in size. If Langford can overcome 6 inches and 30+ lbs to KO an upstart Wills, Marshall can overcome less than 3 inches and 20 lbs to beat up an upstart Maxim.
     
    The Mongoose, Dec 18, 2013
    The Mongoose, Dec 18, 2013
    #50
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Langford was a solid HW, and one of the greatest punchers in history, at any weight, when he knocked out Wills.

    Marshall was a good MW puncher weighing in at SMW when he beat Maxim.

    Very different situations outside the raw data.
     
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    #51
  7. LobowolfXXX

    LobowolfXXX Member Full Member

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    If you don't like his Langford over Wills example, how about Walcott over Choynski?
     
    LobowolfXXX, Dec 18, 2013
    LobowolfXXX, Dec 18, 2013
    #52
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    From memory, that's a welterweight beating a middleweight?
     
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    #53
  9. LobowolfXXX

    LobowolfXXX Member Full Member

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    Light-heavy vs. junior welter, more or less i believe. 170+ vs. 140-
     
    LobowolfXXX, Dec 18, 2013
    LobowolfXXX, Dec 18, 2013
    #54
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    According to boxrec, Choynski weighed 163 and Walcott weighed 147.
     
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    #55
  11. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Very different indeed, Langford overcame more size and actually scored the knockout.
     
    The Mongoose, Dec 18, 2013
    The Mongoose, Dec 18, 2013
    #56
  12. LobowolfXXX

    LobowolfXXX Member Full Member

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    I don't see the weights listed on Boxrec. From an article on Walcott by boxing writer/historian Monte Cox, the weights were 173 & 137, but he doesn't source it.
     
    LobowolfXXX, Dec 18, 2013
    LobowolfXXX, Dec 18, 2013
    #57
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You need to log in to see weights.

    Saint Paul Globe next day report confirms the weights.
     
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    #58
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I hope you understand the differences and think you probably can but are being a bit difficult.

    Anyway, regardless of who beat who and how much they weighed and when, it's entirely obvious to me that the loss by Maxim to Marshall is very bad one.
     
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    McGrain, Dec 18, 2013
    #59
  15. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    -I could say the same for you.

    -I don't see it that way. Maxim lost to a legendary fighter who was at the time the #1 Light Heavy in the world.
     
    The Mongoose, Dec 18, 2013
    The Mongoose, Dec 18, 2013
    #60
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