Joey Maxim couldn't punch?

Jake was no push-over!!

 

TheGreatA

Thanks for posting this. There is controversy over at youtube about whether Jake "slipped", but I can't see it. He was hit several big punches and was clearly badly hurt. Perhaps others will disagree with me.

 

I don't see any comparision with Chuvalo. I don't remember Chuvalo looking hurt. LaMotta was clearly all but helpless after the knockdown. He threw very few punches of any sort and no effective ones for the rest of the round. As I posted before, the fight should have been stopped.

By the way, LaMotta might have been tiring, but it clearly wasn't exhaustion. He was fighting back decently during the early part of the round. It was the four or five big punches which put him down and turned him into jelly.

This could be a delicate issue, but younger posters might have drawn the conclusion from the great movie RAGING BULL that LaMotta could not be knocked down. As I had seen this film before I saw the movie, I knew he had been. Frankly, other than being a total fan of LaMotta's chin being "invincible" I find it hard to understand how anyone can maintain he was "pushed" or "slipped".

 

Pound-for-pound, chins dont get any tougher than LaMotta's.

Maybe Maxim's chin is in the same class, but we need to consider that Maxim was a 185 pound heavyweight for most of his career, so his chin needs to be judged accordingly.

 

1. The Chuvalo knockdown was borderline--in fact ruled a slip. There is nothing borderline in my judgement about LaMotta, and to my eyes there is no evidence at all that he was pushed. He was fighting back fairly well, got hit with three or so really hard shots, tried to clinch, Nardico pulled himself free and put LaMotta down with a big right. Chuvalo's glove barely touched the canvas. LaMotta took a nine count and was obviously badly hurt the rest of the fight.

2. LaMotta was past his best and probably did not have the old time fire. But he was fighting back against Nardico until caught with a series of punches, went down for nine, and after that was helpless.

3. "supposed proof of LaMotta's chin being vulnerable"--It isn't very supposed. He WAS clearly vulnerable to the punches of Danny Nardico on this night in 1952. This doesn't necessarily prove he didn't have a great chin or even the greatest chin ever, but he was by no means by this point invulnerable.

4. The point about Burt is well taken.

5. "sprawled out on the canvas"--Well, Maxim was in against a much more proven puncher and a world better all-around fighter in Moore. Yes, he was hurt and yes he went down. But he got up and recovered. I do think these films indicate Maxim could recover from being hurt and I have to say I have doubts about Jake on that score. Once hurt, Jake seems only to be able to hang in there as a punching bag until the fight has to be stopped.

 

As I Have posted before, there is a difference between a Joey Maxim, and a Jake Lamotta ,and George Chuvalo,style fighter...Maxim took a great punch, no doubt...But he was able to avoid most of his opponents bombs also...While Lamotta,because of his boring in aggresive style,couldn't always evade his opponents heavy artillery, as the clever Maxim, was able to do...Put it this way...If Joey bMaxim was forced to use Lamotta's style, boring in, come what may, Maxim, would have been dropped many more times than he did...Lamotta and George Chuvalo, had the best set of whiskers of their times, no doubt.......

 

Billy Graham had a 126 fights without getting Ko'd. Was he granite jawed or a survivor?

 

I don't believe he was even knocked down. His opposition, though, did not approach that of Maxim's. He simply did not fight many top punchers.

 

Good point on Billy Grahgam...I saw Billy Graham from prelim fighter and up...I have never seen Billy Graham HURT, let alone dropped...A great boxer long range, great infighter also...If Billy Graham could hit hard, he would be in the SAME class as Ray Robinson...That's how well Graham could box...Somewhat like a smaller Joey Maxim, but P4P, a better fighter....NEVER floored....

 

Speaking of Billy Graham...The best boxer puncher I ever saw, except for Ray Robinson, of course, was Tippy Larkin...In over 100 bouts , Larkin seldom if ever lost a decision...But he had a glass chin, and was kod by Beau Jack, Lew Jenkins, Al Bummy Davis,etc....But in 1947 he fought Billy Graham...Larkin won every round of the 10 round bout against the great boxing Billy Graham...No one ever outboxed Tippy Larkin, they had to knock Larkin out....P.S. OLD FOGEY...Yes Joey Maxim fought better punchers P4P than Billy Graham did...It's true....