John Conteh vs Virgil Hill

mcvey · Mar 29, 2023

Tin_Ribs said: ↑

Conteh had looked like shyte and a faded force imo going into the first Saad fight and was really lucky just a few months earlier to get the nod against Jesse Burnett. Even against Parlov despite being very hard done by it was clear he was slipping and his life was in a bit of turmoil by that point. It's should be considered a surprise really that he managed to roll the clock back and be so sharp through the first two thirds of the initial Saad fight before his lack of legs and 15 round conditioning (coupled with Saad being an unhaltable late rounds monster) caught up with him.

Anyone who understands alcoholism (and the interior turmoil often associated with it) and it's effects shouldn't be surprised by how quickly it can make a person nosedive in a short span of time when they recently might have looked highly functional both physically and mentally. It's alarming. I watched it happen to my older brother. Carlos Ortiz looked awesome in the third Laguna fight and a few months later against Teo Cruz looked finished. It happens.

I don't know either that Hill would've been easily the best fighter that Conteh beat as was suggested previous. Though being a long-running titleist, I don't know that I'd hold his best form being superior to that of Ahumada or Lopez tbh. Even Finnegan. It's always tricky comparing a fighter like Hill who had a long, steady reign against mostly very mediocre comp and lost to the best he faced, to fighters who had less glossy records but fought in a much tougher era and didn't have luck or backing on their side.

Conteh is hard to pin down in a certain sense. At his best he was a more talented, skilled and multi -dimensional fighter than Hill imo and beat better fighters. Ahumada, Bennett, Finnegan twice, Hutchins, Rondon, Yaqui Lopez, Schmidtke on top of the fine effort first time out against Saad when far past his best and the highly questionable Parlov verdict is actually quite a strong list of wins for a man who underachieved.

Like mcvey said, very two handed and aggressive prior to the Taylor fight ****ing up his right hand. That injury happened while he was evolving as a fighter and entering what should have been his prime, but forced him to alter his approach afterwards. He became more rounded and less raw than the version who beat Ahumada and Bennett but lost the ability to slip and counter over the top or follow up the jab with heavy rights. So that along with his other well documented problems meant imo that we never really saw a peak version of him.I

I was thinking that the Bennett fight is a possible line for comparison. Lonnie was a very slick long range fighter with a languid but fast and accurate jab. He had real success timing Contehs head movement at mid to long range while John was trying to hold ring centre and probe from the outside with his own jab that hadn't evolved into the weapon that he dominated Lopez with. So Conteh basically just changed tack sharpish and waded in and under somewhat thuggishly but with an undercurrent of finesse not dissimilar to Duran and Napoles and just bullied Bennett up close with strong, mugging infighting with both hands and his head. Cut Bennett up and hurt him and would've imo stopped him had the doctor not pulled Bennett out when he did.

Hill might do well for stretches vs that pre-injury version of Conteh if Conteh opted to try and trade jabs for too long, slipping and fencing at range. But with momentum shifting significantly as soon as Conteh started weaving in leading and countering with both hands at mid to close range with meaner intent. I figure he'd outpoint Virgil handily, who was nowhere near as flaky as Bennett or lacking toughness.

The more fluid, technical but one -handed approach that Conteh used against Lopez might suit Hill a bit better in some aspects, but I'd still back Conteh with reasonable confidence. Hill was a very good/excellent fighter, though nowhere near the titan that his record would suggest on the surface, so as with any fight I wouldn't be agog if he sprung a narrow points grab. I wouldn't favour it though.
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Top post!

Mike Cannon · Mar 30, 2023

Tin_Ribs said: ↑

Conteh had looked like shyte and a faded force imo going into the first Saad fight and was really lucky just a few months earlier to get the nod against Jesse Burnett. Even against Parlov despite being very hard done by it was clear he was slipping and his life was in a bit of turmoil by that point. It's should be considered a surprise really that he managed to roll the clock back and be so sharp through the first two thirds of the initial Saad fight before his lack of legs and 15 round conditioning (coupled with Saad being an unhaltable late rounds monster) caught up with him.

Anyone who understands alcoholism (and the interior turmoil often associated with it) and it's effects shouldn't be surprised by how quickly it can make a person nosedive in a short span of time when they recently might have looked highly functional both physically and mentally. It's alarming. I watched it happen to my older brother. Carlos Ortiz looked awesome in the third Laguna fight and a few months later against Teo Cruz looked finished. It happens.

I don't know either that Hill would've been easily the best fighter that Conteh beat as was suggested previous. Though being a long-running titleist, I don't know that I'd hold his best form being superior to that of Ahumada or Lopez tbh. Even Finnegan. It's always tricky comparing a fighter like Hill who had a long, steady reign against mostly very mediocre comp and lost to the best he faced, to fighters who had less glossy records but fought in a much tougher era and didn't have luck or backing on their side.

Conteh is hard to pin down in a certain sense. At his best he was a more talented, skilled and multi -dimensional fighter than Hill imo and beat better fighters. Ahumada, Bennett, Finnegan twice, Hutchins, Rondon, Yaqui Lopez, Schmidtke on top of the fine effort first time out against Saad when far past his best and the highly questionable Parlov verdict is actually quite a strong list of wins for a man who underachieved.

Like mcvey said, very two handed and aggressive prior to the Taylor fight ****ing up his right hand. That injury happened while he was evolving as a fighter and entering what should have been his prime, but forced him to alter his approach afterwards. He became more rounded and less raw than the version who beat Ahumada and Bennett but lost the ability to slip and counter over the top or follow up the jab with heavy rights. So that along with his other well documented problems meant imo that we never really saw a peak version of him.I

I was thinking that the Bennett fight is a possible line for comparison. Lonnie was a very slick long range fighter with a languid but fast and accurate jab. He had real success timing Contehs head movement at mid to long range while John was trying to hold ring centre and probe from the outside with his own jab that hadn't evolved into the weapon that he dominated Lopez with. So Conteh basically just changed tack sharpish and waded in and under somewhat thuggishly but with an undercurrent of finesse not dissimilar to Duran and Napoles and just bullied Bennett up close with strong, mugging infighting with both hands and his head. Cut Bennett up and hurt him and would've imo stopped him had the doctor not pulled Bennett out when he did.

Hill might do well for stretches vs that pre-injury version of Conteh if Conteh opted to try and trade jabs for too long, slipping and fencing at range. But with momentum shifting significantly as soon as Conteh started weaving in leading and countering with both hands at mid to close range with meaner intent. I figure he'd outpoint Virgil handily, who was nowhere near as flaky as Bennett or lacking toughness.

The more fluid, technical but one -handed approach that Conteh used against Lopez might suit Hill a bit better in some aspects, but I'd still back Conteh with reasonable confidence. Hill was a very good/excellent fighter, though nowhere near the titan that his record would suggest on the surface, so as with any fight I wouldn't be agog if he sprung a narrow points grab. I wouldn't favour it though.
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As I write, there is no post following yours, no wonder at it, a pinpoint and superbly written breakdown of Conteh,s career, troubles, and fighting quality's very impressed, to my mind there is nothing that compares on this topic, and I really cannot see a fair minded poster having much of a counter argument, bravo !
stay safe buddy.

robert ungurean · Mar 30, 2023

Conteh dominates Hill. Might even stop him. When younger guys in the gym used to ask me who they should watch to learn things from prime Conteh was one of the main guys I would suggest. Beautiful fighter

Xplosive · Mar 30, 2023

Here goes the overrating again. John Conteh never stopped a single fighter anywhere remotely close to Hill's level. This would be a decision fight either way.

Hill was never stopped in his prime. He was stopped by a once in a lifetime body shot from a fighter who was far better than Conteh. Sorry if that latter statement will hurt the Conteh fanboys, but it's true.

JohnThomas1 · Mar 31, 2023

I'd favor a Conteh decision at his best. Tin has described it better than anyone else will i reckon.

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John Conteh vs Virgil Hill

mcvey VIP Member

Mike Cannon Boxing Addict Full Member

robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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John Conteh vs Virgil Hill

mcvey VIP Member

Mike Cannon Boxing Addict Full Member

robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

JohnThomas1 VIP Member