John H. Stacey 'Completely Underestimated Carlos Palomino'

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Senor Pepe', Oct 28, 2012.


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  1. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    John H. Stracey did look magnificent in his 'first' title defense on March 20, 1976
    - when he overwhelmed veteran Hedgemon Lewis, by a TKO 10.

    But, I wonder if that bout didn't give the Champion and his Manager -
    Terry Lawless a false sense of invincibility.

    Hedgemon Lewis, at 53-6-2 (26 KO's) was a 30 year-old warrior, who
    had about '7' straight hard-fought bouts upon facing Stracey.

    Despite fighting well for 5-Rounds versus Stracey, he looked shop-worn
    after that, before getting stopped in the 10th Round.

    This content is protected
     
    Senor Pepe', Oct 30, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Oct 30, 2012
    #31
  2. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Saturday - December 6, 1975

    Immediately after John H. Stracey won the WBC Welterweight Championship by stopping
    (TKO 6) Champion - Jose Napoles.

    Terry Lawless stated that the 25 year-old Stracey would make his 'first defense' in
    London. The most logical challenger would be Canadian - Clyde Gray, the British-Commonwealth
    Champion.

    The former 35 1/2 year-old Champion - Jose Napoles wanted a rematch. But, according
    to Terry Lawless, Napoles never signed a return-match clause in the fight contract.

    The new Champion was tough, as he stated that if the former Champion wanted a
    return bout, he would have to earn it - by defeating somebody in the Top 10 first.

    A Jose Napoles vs. Carlos Palomino bout for early-1976 was later 'tossed around',
    with the winner to get a Championship bout. But, Jackie McCoy (Carlos Palomino's manager)
    refused to fight Napoles in Mexico City.
     
    Senor Pepe', Oct 30, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Oct 30, 2012
    #32
  3. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Correct,

    Hedgemon Lewis vs. Carlos Palomino

    Referee, Rudy Jordan..........4-4-2.... 'Even'
    Judge, Pat Murray..............3-3-4.....'Even'
    Judge, Lou Filippo...............6-3-1.....Carlos Palomino

    The Oakland Tribune...........4-4-2.....'Even'

    Carlos had Hedgemon Lewis in big trouble in Rounds 9 and 10.
     
    Senor Pepe', Nov 1, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Nov 1, 2012
    #33
  4. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I scored it 5-4-1 Lewis, but I believe it was the L.A. Times had Palomino in front. It was a very close fight whichever way you look at it.

    Scartissue
     
    scartissue, Nov 1, 2012
    scartissue, Nov 1, 2012
    #34
  5. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I asked John H Stracey about this, albiet a PM on Facebook, and he denies that he took Palomino lightly. He said he took all his fights 'very seriously' and that him and Carlos were friends to this day and keep in touch 'on a regular basis'.

    Fair play to him for replying i suppose
     
    johnmaff36, Nov 2, 2012
    johnmaff36, Nov 2, 2012
    #35
  6. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    John Maff,

    That does contradict what was printed in Sports Illustrated,

    That they were looking for a nice easy fight in June 1976.

    And that Mickey Duff (fight promoter) screened 'three challengers',
    and Carlos was the easiest of the three.
     
    Senor Pepe', Nov 2, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Nov 2, 2012
    #36
  7. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I asked him about Duff or Lawless taking Palomino lightly and whether they took the fight on the basis of the lewis fight. He never elaborated on either so i asked him again. I'll let you know if he gets back to me.


    TBH i believe Stracey, but i also think its entirely plausible what your saying bout mickey duff
     
    johnmaff36, Nov 2, 2012
    johnmaff36, Nov 2, 2012
    #37
  8. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    I'm sure, Mickey Duff was talking about ,

    Armando 'Mando' Muniz and Canadian Clyde Gray as the other opponents.
     
    Senor Pepe', Nov 2, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Nov 2, 2012
    #38
  9. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Stracey said he didnt know what Duff or Lawless were doing because he wasnt even on speaking terms with them at the time. He said he thought he was due a break because he'd fought 2 championship fights in 3 months but they (duff and lawless) threatened to sue if he didnt take the fight. His actual words were 'God knows what them two were up to', so im sensing there must have been a pretty big fallout at that time
     
    johnmaff36, Nov 2, 2012
    johnmaff36, Nov 2, 2012
    #39
  10. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    JM 36,

    After Carlos won the title on June 22, 1976

    According to Jackie McCoy, they wanted to take on Japanese Challenger -Ryu Sorimachi as a 'first defense'.

    But, Mickey Duff who had the first two 'title options' on Carlos, said 'No'.

    They had to fight Armando 'Mando' Muniz first, and within 90-Days (on September 11, 1976) as per the WBC.

    WBC-President, Jose Sulaiman said he owed it to Armando 'Mando' Muniz, for being a good guy and a great
    warrior in his '2-bouts' with Jose Napoles.

    Unfortunately, 'two' postponements by Carlos (due to injuries sustained in training camp) pushed the bout
    back to January 21, 1977.

    The winner of Carlos Palomino vs. Armando Muniz bout was supposed to fight John. H. Stracey in London,
    in March or April of 1977.
     
    Senor Pepe', Nov 2, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Nov 2, 2012
    #40
  11. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Were those bouts televised? Looked for Palomino-Lewis on youtube and was surprised that nobody had posted it.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Oct 30, 2015
    mrkoolkevin, Oct 30, 2015
    #41
  12. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    How do you think Stracey would have done against Mando or Gray?
     
    mrkoolkevin, Oct 30, 2015
    mrkoolkevin, Oct 30, 2015
    #42
  13. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

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    The beer spokesman.
     
    WhataRock, Oct 30, 2015
    WhataRock, Oct 30, 2015
    #43
  14. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    I think John Stracey may have been guilty of overrating himself a bit...after all, it was a shot...shot Jose Napoles that he was fortunate to beat (Mantequilla would have destroyed John just a few years earlier),...and Hedgemon Lewis was a bit shopworn himself, having been stopped by Napoles previously...and John sounds like an unsportsmanly sore loser in denigrating Palomino the way he did.
     
    red cobra, Oct 30, 2015
    red cobra, Oct 30, 2015
    #44
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