John L Sullivan against Wladimir Klitshcko! ! ! !

now i am wondering who would play Sullivan in a hard hitting movie.

HOw about Taylor Kitsch?

 

I do think this is a mismatch, but Sullivan won't do as horrendously badly as Shot Old Mormeck.

 

There simply isn't enough fact or footage about him that we can make our own independent assessments of him. We do know that he was the last of the bare knuckle champions who had incredible durability and stamina and that he was quite the finisher of his day.

Anything is possible; an easy stoppage for Wlad or a battle of wills that favors Sullivan are two possibilities.

I'll give the edge to Wlad; his physical attributes make for a compelling case; his chin notwithstanding.

 

He's not just fighting Wlad, he's fighting 100 years of boxing innovations and advances. I toughness is a factor in this fight it's only regarding how long Sullivan stays in the fight

 

Sullivan probably only weighed under 200lbs for the Ryan fight.

I say probably, because it is hard to get reliable figures for that period.

His tale of the tape implies a masivley built fighter for a man of 5' 11''. I think it is fair to say that he was somewhat bigger than Rocky Marciano or Jack Dempsey.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/u/ce/feature/0,1518,3123594_8,00.html

 

If we time machine Sullivan to 2012 and make him fight Vlad with todays rules and equipment then Vlad pummels Sullivan to either a lopsided decision or late round stoppage. However..If we time machine Vlad to the late 1800's and make him fight outside in the middle of Summer...In a dirt floored ring...bareknuckled...with the rules of the time prevailing then Sullivan overwhelms Vlad and ko's him. We're talking about 2 different era's and 2 different sports really. It's almost impossible to say for certain what would happen in a scenario like this. Both men fought under different rulesets and employed different techniques to get the job done but I think it's fair to say that both men would have a very difficult time if they were forced to fight in the other man's era under the rules of his opponent's respective time period. Like I said it was a different sport back in John L's time and it's a different sport today in Vlad's time.

 

For whatever it is worth, Sullivan would probably want the contest to be fought with gloves.

Since Wlad would be unlikley to contest this, I cannot see it being a bare knuckle fight.

 

I'm not sure why I always assumed john l wasn't a real hw. I've read up a lot on him lately and I retract that earlier criticism.

If he hits wlad he probably could finish him off after consideration.

The issue here is technique. John l was a fantastic athletic boxer who was a level way above his field (aside from maybe jackson).

But his odds of counter punching wlad with wild power shots are very very low.

He will never have fought a man who can jab as accurate, consistent nor powerful as wlad can.

The straight right will be a punch harder than he's ever experienced in his life.

The wlad from the brewster or purrity fight could well gas out against john l and lose by late stoppage but everything points to wlad smacking john with the jab to cut his face open and soften him up before putting him out with the straight right.

 

Here is our problem.

We can reconstruct Sullivans general style from contemporary accounts, but it still leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

He might have been like Jack Dempsey, or he might have been a fighter with similar style, power and speed, but with several crucial technical fundamentals missing.

All that I will commit to, is that he was an exceptional athletic talent, who any trainer in any era would have been lucky to develop.

 

Of course it does. The most rose tinted glasses could see his attacks as precision punching in the vein of jones jr. The most modernist approach could see his attacks as wild but brutal like cuevas. The truth is probably somewhere between.

The lack of film is a shame. Even more so is the fact that john was miles ahead of the game and the level of contenders is seen to be terrible and again unfilmed.

Atleast today's criticised hw division is full of film, global rankings and professionally trained fighters. It's much easier to gauge talent.

John l isn't a great guy to consider in h2h debates because of how little we know of him, his opposition and his style.

But historians of yesteryear who had better access to reliable resources weren't picking him over guys like johnson, dempsey nor louis. He himself said jeffries was a level above him.

All we can do is appreciate what he did achieve and not allow ourselves to get drawn into how he'd fare today.

As you say, he's a raw athletic talent who would likely be moulded by an expert trainer today and it's impossible to say what the outcome would be.

Picking him over wlad I a huge leap of faith and one I can't make.

 

This is the only point that I will disagree with.

The people who had actualy seen him from ringside, backed him to the hilt against latter greats.

Once the people who had seen him started dieing off, his star fell like a stone.

 

The Boston Strongboy would demote "Dr. Steelhammer" to "Powderpuff R.N." with outrageous quickness, then treat Hayden Panettiere* to the moustache ride of her life.

Bank on that and prosper.




*or whoever.

 

Classic forum is classic lol

 

Puuuuuhhhhhleeeeese!

Sullivan would give the Klitschko's a terrific beating with a pint in one hand while downing shooters in between rounds. People are talking about one of the toughest men in the history of all sport to walk into this fight with his face and get killed.

I don't think so. Vitali and Wlad would have their hands full with a prime Sullivan and modern rules.