John L. Sullivan, American Icon Myth ?

Bingo.

There's a reason most serious boxing discussions tend not to pit the likes of Sullivan, and other pioneers, in with modern era fighters in h2h match-ups. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to do so. It doesn't flatter the modern guys, nor diminish the pioneers. They were essentially practicing a different sport.

 

All the old boxing documentaries/literature I've seen on Sullivan always makes sure to mention how he could "drink under the table any man he didn't fight". He's the first fighter shown in this video and go out on a limb to make sure everyone know's what a proficient alcoholic the man was. Weird.

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Yeah, part of the legend's charm, weirdly... (and resonates in subsequent generations beautifying the likes of Galento, and Mayorga. Boxing fans love us a galoot that can brawl with John Barleycorn as well as in the ring..)

 

all i said was the fact that in the 20th century they largely (NOT WHOLLY, LARGELY) dominated hw boxing, meaning at the top level, the titlists were them 90% of the time.

they did. I cant change the fact that they did, it just is.

Simply using it was evidence that there likely as hell were great black HWs a few years before then... nothing really changed in those few years after all.

 

Fair enough....I just prefer to keep the forum (and specifically Classic) from being cluttered with pseudoscientific racialist baiting type posts...wasn't sure exactly if that is what you were driving at, just wanted to issue a caution in case it was.

 

Yeah, every generation certainly had their heroes and everything you read about JLS is he was everything that encompassed a man of his time....men wanted to be him

 

It is a a reality of the era and certainly cannot be disregarded when discussing greatness based off who they fought and beat and who they did not

 

This. Boxing representation has to do with socieo economic stature not racial make up. Many great Black fighters were denied their chance in the sport at the turn of the last century and if they had been given the opportunity I'm sure some records of some fighters would have been altered. Just as true though is, the white American athlete with better socieo economic mobility after world war 2, vanished from the sport. Seeking less difficult paths to earn their career. During this time, the black athlete, with less opportunity in the normal world came to dominate the sport for several generations. One talent pool dried up, another flourished. Just as today, social mobility has improved steadily for African Americans and as such their talent pool as begun to dry up, and in it's place is the immigrant Latino community from Mexico and the South West. Also, as the sport continues to globalise other countries now have the opportunity to present their talent on the world stage. The talent pool is deeper globally than ever before. There is Caucasian talent flourishing from countries much smaller than America such as Ukraine. If we open our horizons outside of the viewpoint of an American or U.K. Who's to say the records of our fighters would not also be altered if the fighters from the very formidable Soviet amateur program or Cuban program had been allowed to turn pro for decades. Perhaps then history would be rewritten yet again.

 

There has never been a time up to the 1930's when white boxers did not earn significantly more than their black opponents,one only has to look at the purses Langford was getting against white fighters.

 

True, but I doubt that Langford would have made more money doing anything else.