John L Sullivan and Peter Jackson

Fascinating stuff, both from Bit and Janitor. Love to have a good read like this in the morning, helps me get past those hatred "going back to a job I hate" blues on a Monday.

 

Sullivan avoided his two best challengers in Jackson and Slavin. He could not use the color line excuse vs. Slavin who was white.

Many say Sullivan was past it in the mid-1880s.

His results from 1884 ( age 26 ) to 1887 ( age 28 ) vs some name competition not in the class of Jackson or Slavin fail to show this dynamic puncher.

Sully's best-gloved win may be Charlie Mitchell in 1883. Mitchell was a middleweight with little power, yet he managed to floor Sullivan. Corbett beat the same man in three rounds as well taking some of the luster off his best win.

I would pick Jackson or Slavin over Sullivan from 1884-1887

 

You would do well to read some of the previous posts in this thread.

 

Jackson would have zero chance before 1887, he was losing to Farnan and taking 30 rounds to defeat Lees. Slavin was drawing with Jack Burke in 1888, a prior easy victim of Sullivan. You have got the time-line wrong, I feel.

 

I'm going to attempt a year end top ten for 1880- 1892, I would value all your inputs.

 

It might be helpful to look at each year individually.

You could even set up threads to debate certain years if you wanted.

You would have to decide what weighting you gave to bare knuckle fights.

 

I think gloves only, no credit whatsoever for LPR?

 

I get what you are saying and 1880 is going to be pretty pathetic but the likes of Paddy Ryan or Jem Smith did little of note with the gloves. There is however a definite argument for a different thread ie the best fighters 1880-1890, gloves or bare-knuckles.

 

Then things probably don't really get going properly, until Sullivan holds the title, and forces everybody challenge him under Queensbury rules.

 

Not an easy task. Good luck.

 

Rereading the outstanding "John L. Sullivan and HIs America " by Jerry Eisenberg .. Sullivan is such a fascinating and charismatic figure that it is easy to lose sight that he really possessed very little fighting skill. He was an exceptional bar fighter , street fighter, toughman contestant by today's standards .. if you study his fights as they were he was a storm out of the corner slam till the other falls fighter .. the reviews of the Ryan fight, the Tug Willson fight, the first and second Mitchel fights all pretty much rip him to pieces as a fighter devoid of any skill other than brute power and speed .. I honestly don't think he matches up well against many of the Australian fighters from the same era who actually developed boxing skills .. he was a terrific hero of the day , super charismatic , a true puncher with speed but really fought no one his age, size and of top skill under M of Q till Corbett ..