John L Sullivan in the 1920's

You dont know if Corbett insulting Johnson in that 1910 fight. Sure Corbett was waveing his hands, but they were not saying "Anything". Yeah Corbett was a racist.

 

Corbett was a mouthy guy in general, a real smack talker, and if he was in a guy's corner, he would have said whatever he thought he needed to say to throw the guy off. He talked trash to white fighters too. Not saying it was right, but Corbett was one of those guys who would smile at his opponents and engage in antics to mess with their heads.

 

Even Georges Carpentier lasted more than 3 rounds with Dempsey, and he wasn't half the fighter Charley Mitchell was. Mitchell hadn't fully recovered from illness (probably malaria) before the Corbett fight. He was expected to come to the ring at a little over 12st, but weighed about a stone less.

 

Also, look at the dates. Sullivan KO3 Mitchell in 1883, in Queensberry rules bout. Sullivan D39 Mitchell in 1888, in LPR rules. Corbett KO3 Mitchell in 1894 in Queensberry rules. Mitchell was WAY past his prime when he met Corbett, and had been very inactive but for a few sparring exhibitions.

 

One fighter who saw John L Sullivan in action and continued to rate him the best heavyweight that he had ever seen into the 1930s was Jack McAuliffe.

This is particularly interesting because slicksters like McAuliffe tend to rank other slicksters more highly while punchers tend to rate other punchers. Consisten with this pattern McAuliffe rated Gene Tunney the second best heavyweight he had ever seen but he remained convinced that Sullivan was the best.

This content is protected

 

dempsey destroys him

 

how would jesse owens have done in the 2000's? gotten smoked, just like sullivan,

 

So when will we see a fighter break John L Sullivans track record of 33 title defences?

Boxing track records seem to be more robust than running ones.

 

not sure how much you know about Jesse Owens, but i would be very interested to know how Jesse Owens training regime compares with that of say Usain Bolt or Carl Lewis or other top current 100m sprinters.

My presumption is that it is not in the same league. It is interesting that fighters were often as good as most of the running champs (eg Corbett/Jeffries) or swimming champs (think it was Greggains who won a big swimming race in california) or rowers (have been a fair few good rowers) or shot putters (Herbert slade finished top 3 in the NZ champs) etc back in those days. Presumably this is simply because very few people actually were full time trainers in those sports and that the best natural athletes all went into boxing not other sports.

Nowadays it is a reverse situations. This needs to be factored in.

By the way, i think this thread was a good bump. From memory this was around the time of the first Pollack book which caused John L's stocks to really rise around here at the time.

There are a certain few punchers who have that pin point timing to KO which places them a class above other fighters in a one punch KO sense. I think that Tyson was the last we have seen. Able to mix power, speed and timing. Nowadays plenty ko with power but the ability to mix the three together is something special.

Over time, i think that probably only Tyson, Dempsey, Louis and John L Sullivan have that ability. And it is possible that John L and Tyson are at the top of that list. Fitz and Langford are two others who might sneak in the class but you would think they would be both too small to compare with the above guys, but testimony says otherwise.

 

thats my point, training and athletes evolve. sullivan was great for his time but couldnt compete with modern guys. sullivan loses to. Ali, Marciano, Foreman, Holemes, Norton, Tyson, Holyfield, K BROS. ETC

 

How would Ali do against Wlad ?

 

Jesse Owens track career was over when he was 22 years old. We have no idea how good a fully mature Owens could have been. Mind you, he still set a long jump record that lasted 25 years.

Consider a few other factors regarding Owens:

Ran mostly on dirt and cinder tracks. Grass runways were largely the norm for the long jump. He had zero weight training, zero plyometrics, zero resistance training. Sprint training in the 20's and 30's consisted largely of repeated racing and top speed repetitions. Owen's amazing day of 4 world records (including the aforementioned LJ record) was performed on a chewed up dirt track without the aid of starters blocks.

And Owens did not have access to the "enhanced nutrition" that has been so prevalent in sprinting since the 1980's. And regarding the current era, most athletics observers are merely shaking their heads, the PED culture being so prevalent and pervasive.

 

Steroids alone euros get him sub 9.9. Now a starting block and better tracks...