John L Sullivan punching power vs Bob Fitzsimmons?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Reason123, Sep 15, 2015.



  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Here's the full quote, at least as it appeared in "Scientific Sullivan," The Tennessean, Nov. 24, 1886:

    "An Old Sport" in the Chicago News: "You have heard hundreds of men, when speaking of Sullivan, say: 'He wins by brute strength, and I have seldom seen a man who advanced the truth, which is that Sullivan is as 'clever' as any man. His unquestioned ability as to being the hardest hitter ever seen has caused the overlooking of the fact that his blow is always planted where it will do the most good, either upon the jaw or jugular; again, it is certain that, could an adversary so land his blow, Sullivan would fall as quickly as another, and yet, having 'knocked out' about sixty men, he has never been harmed.
    "The truth is that Sullivan is a careful, scientific fighter”. You have heard how John Barleycorn had got the better of him, so that he couldn't 'stay.' Last Saturday's mill furnished him an opponent who for years has been in training, that when the occasion offered he might meet Sullivan in the pink of condition. Yet the first round saw Ryan winded, while Sullivan is reported as finishing the battle perfectly fresh. Then rumor has said, 'Sullivan might not stand punishment.' The chances are that Paddy gave him more than one hard rap, and yet we find him doing his work at the finish just like machinery.
    "Do I think his equal as a pugilist ever trod the earth? Certainly not. Take the records of the Englishmen. Whenever a man was 'knocked out' with the 'raw' uns' even it was considered a 'flunk,' and don't think that Tom Hyer, Ned Price, or John C. Heenan ever 'put a man to sleep.' The latter in his fight with John Morrissey could hit his man just as one would strike a sandbag, and still the latter lasted long enough to win the fight. How many times do you think Sullivan would have been forced to swing his right on such a man as Morrissey? Why, the first round would have ended the fight. Sullivan has 'knocked out' twenty or thirty men with pillows on his hands, and the Roman gladiators couldn't hit hard enough with brass-knuckles to end a battle at a blow.
    "Even in imagination the ancients never conceived such a hitter as Sullivan. Achilles, Ajax and those babies were supposedly 'out for the stuff,' yet when the gods wished them to win they furnished a club or a big rock, and old Sherm Thurston and Dad Ryan were about right when, after reciting the exploits of prize-fighters for all time, they finished with: 'John L. Sullivan was placed on earth to show the nineteenth century what could be done in the shape of a man."
     
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  2. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    Ill go with sullivan getting his knock outs due to size and force .

    I feel fitz was better calculated with his punches though.
     
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  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I don't see how that makes much difference?
     
  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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  5. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    It's a good idea to go back to as original source as possible, because these things can get corrupted over time, sometimes horrendously so. And even fairly slight wording changes or a bit of extra context can alter the meaning.
     
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  6. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Exactly.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    As for the original question, it is a bit like asking whether Joe Louis hit harder than Mike Tyson, if you didn't have meaningful film of either of them!
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I take your point ,but how many rounds would you expect Charlie Mitchell to go with Fitz?
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Mace was 58 years old and had not fought for 71/2years ! lol
    They went 4, 2 minute rds Whoop de ****ing doo!lol
     
  10. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    LPR? I'll pick Mitchell to win.
     
  11. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You don't think that Fitz fought some LPR fights when he was young? He was far better fighter than Mitchell.
     
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  12. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Not to any level though. Mitchell was experienced at LPR at a high level.

    LPR made KOs much harder too
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I certainly wouldn't.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Mitchell was like modern footballers ,when things got dangerous he flopped on the deck.
     
  15. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Plenty of bareknuckle fighters had success doing similar.

    Not the most honourable strategy, but it was effective.